Page name: The Twilight Saga: Eclipse review [Logged in view] [RSS]
2011-06-02 16:15:39
Last author: Nioniel
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The Twilight Saga: Eclipse Review

As in the other movies in the series, “Eclipse” is about the relationship between Edward Cullen (Robert Pattinson) and Isabella, or Bella, Swan (Kristen Stewart). While on the surface the film’s plot may appear to simply be yet another romance flick, it is not. While Bella Swan is very much the helpless female character that is seen so often in romance films, Edward Cullen is no charmingly befuddled suitor. Instead, Edward is a Vampire, which complicates his relationship with Bella quite a bit. 

Bella and Edward have been together for two years or so when “Eclipse” begins. After having suffered a few trials in their relationship, including Edward leaving Bella briefly in “New Moon,” Bella being hunted down by a Vampire Tracker, and Bella having feelings for her werewolf friend, Jacob, Bella and Edward are determined to figure out where their relationship is heading. As Edward does his best to convince Bella to marry him, Bella tries her hardest to convince Edward to turn her into a Vampire like him before she ages any more than her seventeen years. As the two try to compromise their wants, other conflicts arise.

More and more murders are occurring in Seattle, and while Bella’s father, Charlie, a detective on the force, thinks that they may be the work of a serial killer, Edward and his family know better. Edward’s “brother,” Jasper (Jackson Rathbone), informs the family that an army of newborn Vampires is being made in Seattle (hence the killings) and that unless the Cullen Family does something to stop the Newborns from wrecking so much havoc, the Volturi will step in. 

The “police” of the Vampire world, the Volturi are a powerful group of Vampires with a nasty bunch of powers. In “New Moon,” the Volturi made it quite clear that Bella was to be turned into a Vampire because she knew too much about the Vampire world. However, Edward and his family believe that they can keep Bella safe from the Volturi despite having disobeyed their orders. Obviously, the Cullens would prefer the Volturi not step in to take care of the Newborn Army, as that would put them dangerously close to the Cullens and the still-human Bella.

Additional problems present themselves in the forms of Victoria (Bryce Dallas Howard), the partner of the Vampire Tracker that hunted down Bella in “Twilight,” and Jacob (Taylor Lautner), Bella’s Werewolf best-friend who is desperately in love with her despite her devotion to Edward. As the Newborn Army grows larger and the body count rises in Seattle, the Cullen family, Bella, and Jacob all need to decide what is truly important to them all.

I've seen all of the Twilight movies so far that have come out, and personally, I think that this is the best of the bunch yet. While some of the actors and actresses still only give their usual crappy performances, the overall acting in this film was decent. While I watched the movie, I wasn't wondering how much longer I would have to suffer through it until it would finally end; the pacing was good and the plot made sense. I think that even some of those who despise the series would agree that this is the best of the films yet.

/ [Nioniel]

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2011-07-08 [Sideways]: Funny thing about Buffy is yes, there were many empowerd female leads. Buffy, herself, I think was the weakest example of them all. However, that was probably to make her seem more vulnerable and more widely relatable. At least that was probably an artistic decision, not terrible, AWFUL writing for terrible, AWFUL people.

2011-07-08 [SilverFire]: I think it might be more to do with over-powered main characters making a show dull. She might be the weakest (and I'm not sure I agree, there), but she still repeatedly saves lives, towns, and the entire world. <_<

2011-07-08 [Sideways]: Eh. The last 4 seasons sucked ass and you know it. It was still a good show. Now back to my main point. Twilight is corrupting our youth. Between modern R&B/hip hop/ rap/ country/ the band Nickleback,
between approximently half of all anime, between what children are watching on nickolodeon and disney and what have you as we speak,

*Girls are being conditioned to being needy, reckless sluts,

*Males are being conditioned to being abusive, psychotic power hungry thugs, with the added twist of a severe reverse ego problem

2011-07-08 [Nioniel]: I'm sorry, but girls have pretty much always been conditioned to be needy, reckless, and sexual, and men have always been conditioned to be powerful and dominating. Twilight was not the point where any of this began to happen, or even happen faster or on a greater level.

2011-07-08 [SilverFire]: I agree that season three was the best, but I don't think all four of the last four seasons "sucked ass" all the time. I've also heard, though I've neither read nor watched them, that in the last book of the "saga" Bella Swan actually saves everyone. However, the same person who told me this admitted that even after this, Bella still has zero self-worth, and it's worrying indeed that the author wants girls to identify as closely as possible with such a character. But I think your comparison between that and Buffy is pretty tenuous.

2011-07-08 [Sideways]: It's just an example. Very early on Buffy becomes hopelessly insecure and depressed. Maybe it's personal bias, but no matter how physically appealing, weak, abuse-seeking self loathing women are not attractive. They shouldn't ever be. That's unethical to take advantage of such a broken, inhuman shell of a woman.

2011-07-08 [SilverFire]: And then she gets over. I'd rather see TV shows that deal with the reality of people being insecure, depressed, miserable, etc. and then pulling through it and coming out stronger and better for it than have them skip on with characters who never have an ounce of self-doubt. I don't even know where the second part of your comment is coming from or going to. :P

2011-07-08 [Sideways]: In lamens terms, you shouldn't love people who hate themselves. Without a proper education in relationship psychology, that is a doomed relationship. Inevitable, painful failure.

2011-07-08 [SilverFire]: Laymen. :P It wasn't that part that I didn't understand, but that you seem to take it as a given that weak, abuse-seeking people are physically attractive. I assume I may be misunderstanding that due to wording, though.

2011-07-08 [Sideways]: Depends on your definition of attractive. Can they be physically appealing? Yes. Can they be emotionally or socially attractive? They can fake it easily enough for a time. But if you know the warning signs, and they are in-your-face obvious, then you should know that relationship is 100% fucked.

2011-07-08 [SilverFire]: So you're saying that no attractive actress should ever be asked to play a character who has to g through weakness, depression or self-loathing? (based on your "They shouldn't ever be" comment about attractiveness), and that somehow, attractive women are morally reprehensible for daring to be both attractive and depressed? X) (see, this is why I thought I didn't understand your comment – the implications just seem too bizarre).

2011-07-08 [SilverFire]: You also seem to be assuming that depressed or self-loathing people can't actually get over it. A relationship with such a person is only "100% fucked" if they *can't* get better. Personally, I believe that's rarely the case.

2011-07-08 [Sideways]: That is often the case. Pretty much a rule of thumb, actually. Almost nobody "gets over it" by themselves. I'd put money on the statistic percentage of people who, without intense therapy or an extremely poisitive and affirming sexual relationship, are probably less than five percent of any group studied.

And no, I'm not talking about acting right now. Though I do massively frown upon vapid, evil slime like Bella being presented as any kind of heroine.

No what I'm saying is I believe it's not only next to impossible to heal yourself without direct, intensive help, it's almost completely impossible to love anyone else properly if you hate yourself.

I challenge you to present evidence otherwise. I've never, ever seen it happen.

2011-07-08 [SilverFire]: "That is often the case. Pretty much a rule of thumb, actually. Almost nobody "gets over it" by themselves."

Okay, I find this sentence confusing. The statement you're confirming is "people who are depressed/self-loathing can't get over it" not: "Can't get over it by themselves", not: "Can't get over it without professional help", but just simply: "Can't get over it". Then you clarify that you mean "can't get over it by themselves" – that's a new qualification, and not one I made, and not the same thing as the statement the start of your sentence is supposedly agreeing with.

I don't understand why I have to present evidence but you don't. :P I believe the intensity of the help people will need will be proportional to the depths of their specific case, and don't believe that blanketing everyone together in the way you seem to be doing is actually helpful. I believe that plenty of people can and DO get over it without professional help based on the people they encounter and the experiences in their life. Of course, this is precisely the kind of thing it's very hard to find documented evidence of º it's far easier to document cases where people go to get help than when they don't. :P Just like the police can only guess at how many crimes *actually* happen each year because they can only be certain of the ones that get reported. 

2011-07-08 [SilverFire]: In response to: "18:30:48 (6min ago) [Sideways]: Okay. Silver, no offense, but take a deep breath and re read my last comment much slower. I get the sense you're a speed reader. I am not sure how you are repeatedly stating that I am saying the exact opposite of what I clearly stated.

Next, please turn you super inferrance machine off. You are reading wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to far into things I say.

Evidence does not mean "immutable, scientific statistical fact." evidence" means "evidence". please stay on track."

Actually I usually re-read several times before responding. I've re-read it again and stand by my previous statement. I say "You also seem to be assuming that depressed or self-loathing people can't actually get over it." You then say "That is often the case. Pretty much a rule of thumb, actually. Almost nobody "gets over it" by themselves."
"By themselves" is only a qualification in the last one. :)

I'm just pointing out logical consequences. With all due respect, maybe you should think about those a little bit more? :P

Your last paragraph is surely just ironic. :P

2011-07-08 [Sideways]: Ok. No. One more time. I'll use metaphors like you. Though I have a feeling you might get hung up on the details again. No offense.

A broken down car cannot drive itself to a mechanic. It can't even be driven there. It must be towed. If you are so depressed you are suicidal, if you have such low self esteem that you feel no love for your own self, you cannot heal yourself.

You, in this specific case, Bella being the example, cannot have a healthy relationship. You cannot love yourself. You require, you must have, Edward's love to feel happy. You cannot properly love him back, because you don't find yourself worthy of his love, and you, most likely, have no idea how to express true love when you are so mired in self pity.

It's like shaking water and oil in a glass. They will mix for a few seconds and, inevitably, seperate. They are in compatible. Now, if Edward suffered the same painful self loathing, the relationship would end in fucking disaster.

I have personally experienced both Edwards and Bellas position. I've seen it happen to many, many close friends. That's my point.

2011-07-08 [SilverFire]: I don't think I've used a metaphor yet? :P

I don't see how your latest comment is much related to the previous ones. My point was I said "you seem to be saying these people can't get better." you replied "Yes, they can't get better by themselves." That's my problem. I'm saying "You seem to be saying X", you're saying "Yes, I'm saying y". But whatever. I can let that go. :P

I'm sure that this is just me reading too much into your metaphor, but: No, a broken down car can't get to a mechanic. But sometimes cars don't break down completely. Sometimes kind strangers pull-over and go 'oh, you just need to refill this.' and you don't have to take it to the mechanic at all. I am acknowledging degrees of depression and self-loathing that you don't seem to be. Not everyone who is depressed is depressed to the point of suicide. I don't disagree with your analysis of Bella and Edward. I just don't think that it's applicable to everyone who's feeling depressed/self-loathing because of different degrees and intensities of cases. :)

2011-07-08 [Sideways]: Ok. Again no point you just made had anything whatsoever to do with any of my comments. Also my comments do not contridict each other.

I'll try to clarify again, because we are totally not discussing the same topic anymore.

Take Bella. We are talking about Bella/people whose depression strictly resemble Bella's. We are not talking about depression as a whole.

Next, your example of the kind stranger does qualify as "direct help from another person." whic is arguing for my point. So far, again, no offense, I'm just trying to clarify my hypothesis. I can't debate with you until our subject is clear.

so if you posess little to know self worth and feel the need to be in a relationship to feel whole, which is a condition called "codependancy," it is widely argued by psychologists and experts alike that you need to be trained to behave properly in a relationship, because you have been conditioned to be self-centered and your empathy for others has been diminished.

I've never heard of a person simply snapping out of a codependant mindset. These people absolutely need therapy of some kind to learn normal give and take relationship dynamics.

2011-07-08 [SilverFire]: "Also my comments do not contridict each other. "
I don't think I said they did? :P

If I'm misunderstanding you, I'm going to place some of the blame with you. :P I assumed the mechanic was your metaphor for professional help, not help full-stop. :) My point has been that not everyone need professional help to get better.

Take Bella. We are talking about Bella/people whose depression strictly resemble Bella's. We are not talking about depression as a whole.

Yeah, you definitely needed to clarify that at some point, because I certainly wasn't talking specifically about Bella and certainly WAS talking about depression as a whole (since this conversation actually developed from the Buffy part of your original statement, not the Twilight <_<), I thought I made it perfectly clear I was talking in general terms. :P I'm also not very qualified to comment on Bella's state, because I freely admit I haven't watched the films nor read the books cover-to-cover. I've read a fair amount of the book through following though – which is a blog you might like. :)

Essentially I don't think we're disagreeing at all. You're saying "seriously ill people need professional help", I'm saying "Sure, but not all people are seriously ill, and those who aren't can get better without the professional help."

2011-07-08 [Sideways]: Ok. You still have a serious over-analyzing problem. Now, my actual original point is "Bella should not be idolized. And Bella is now a nationally recognized and popular heroine. She is seriously mentally ill and her actions throughout the movie are dangerous and nonsensical to the point that people can, and probably did die from her ineptitude. I haven't seen them either. I've seen half of new moon and it was so revolting I had to turn it off. Anyway, thanks for not getting heated. I try to avoid arguments here now.

2011-07-09 [Alexi Ice]: ....>>

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