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2008-03-14 05:32:06
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The Roleplayers' Council is no longer. All forum members, please kindly apply to the WFR Guild via the WFR Application Page, and ask to be considered for the Guild Guards and/or Knight position(s).

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the-roleplay-initiative
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The Elftown Clans
-- [xido], WFR Guild Madraven of 2003-2008

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2007-02-19 [Kim_Lundin]: Hmm... FESL Leader? I'm honored... what's FESL? :D

2007-02-20 [xido]: Fantasy Endangered Species List - because you are currently the tentative Dwarfin Clans Leader, and the only member of the FESL crew as of this moment. We can hold future votes if you preferred a different position, and polls can be made for voting people in and out of office.

Currently, we need a Vampire or Undead Races member to sit as GOP Council Leader, and someone from the leading MGP Clan to lead the Fantasy Minority, including the FESL's Minor Clans.

I am unsure of the needs for laws surrounding the nomination of a polled clan member to lead the FESL. What do you think about this idea, Kim? Should you lead the Minor Clans until a true FESL Leader be chosen, or would you prefer a Minor Clans Leader be the FESL Leader for the duration? Does that make sense?

The idea here is: All races below 2% on the Representative Poll, <poll:73926> are considered Endangered Species, and listed on the Minor Clans page. Now, since those not polled currently are the least represented, I would think that a true Endangered Species (one who is not listed on the poll) might lead the FESL, and one of the 1% polled races lead the Minor Clans. Can one person do both, or should they be delegated positions based on Clan structure and duties?

2007-02-20 [Once upon a dream]: Uhm, HI! I was invited here!

2007-02-20 [moonbunny529]: me too!

2007-02-20 [Once upon a dream]: Uhm, I don't know what to do...<img:stuff/br2N-gif.gif>

2007-02-20 [BinaryPhoenix]: I was also invited here. And I don't have a clue why or what's this for....  Can anyone shed some light on this?

2007-02-20 [BinaryPhoenix]: How do I get my name on the list on this page?

2007-02-20 [sweettooth]: o.o

2007-02-20 [Mattheyu]: *Cough* I believe that since we seem to have almost nothing in common as far as our houses, it was mainly random invitations, but foregoing a direct response from this [xido] fellow, I doubt we will ever truly know. There is of course, a post by [xido] which appears to address general reasons on the forum, and a direct link here:http://elftown.lysator.liu.se/view_forum.html?mnr=426756

2007-02-20 [Once upon a dream]: Hhaha, well that was odd. Haha...

2007-02-21 [xido]: Hi everyone! I'm Will, the current moderator until a full Clan political structure has been set up, and I would like to let you all know at once what you were invited here to do, and would like to thank Halcyon for helping to clarify.

This page is a roleplay zone. In it, we will be creatures which we identify with. Currently, Elftown offers only a select few fantasy races to choose from on your house presentation.

My ideas center around allowing all Creature_List Races the ability to have their voices heard, in any form, for any reason. I would eventually like to approach the Elftown Council with a true resolution about upgrading certain features of this sort on Elftown. But that is beside the major point.

This page lists a GOP ("Grand Olde Party", or a majority House), and the Minorities (known collectively as the MGP, "Minorities Groups Party", and each page includes in its ranks beings from The Creature List and the WFR Char RACE Page, who will be asked to form a 'CLAN'. Every Clan will have the ability to freely decide what the laws and bylaws of the Clans' structures, who gets in, and what the rules of the Clan are.

All Clans collectively are in these two Houses. Fantasy Humans are the House Moderators, who work with both houses as far as making peace, representing one House for the other House, sending messages about major changes, etc. The Humans get their own Clan, a member of the GOP - Human Clans. There can be multiple Human Clans which work in cooperation, and there will undoubtedly be some need for split Clans representing a single clan for Humans.

Anyways, after a full RP Council is put together (One Clan Leader for each Clan listed on the Representative Poll, <poll:73926>, both Houses will be able to make major decisions and have an influence on how RPG society works on Elftown, and how best to confront the issues raised by Take Elftown Back.

This is a movement sponsored and supported by the-roleplay-initiative, and allowed to grow and expand by [Hedda] and the Council's members. It is in no way endorsed by them, simply allowed to take place.

For more info, please see the post I made about our duties and needs: [426756 (Unknown or private posting)]

Thanks everyone, and yes, though it may take a day or two for me to answer every question, you will get answers. Pleas feel free to comment or begin working on any Elftown Clans page you have an interest in, and at your own pace.

Best wishes to you all,
-will

2007-02-21 [xido]: "Akai Kiri: How do I get my name on the list on this page?"

Please join one of the Elftown Clans, based on your favorite Fantasy Creature from the Creature List. From there, all leader will decided by votes and Clan decisions.

I am currently leading the Draconic Clan because I love dragons. There are a large amount of Vampire-lovers out there too, so they should join Undead Clan and start fleshing out how they would like to work together as fantasy races.

One thing that can be done (to those of you who are unsure of what to do, or what your purpose can be, do as I did to find you all:

Go to 'Search' at the top of the page, on the Elftown upper taskbar, right nest to 'Forums'.
On the Search page, set the list to post people in the order you wish them to be viewed (by name, last-login, date-created, etc.
Also, click 'English' as a language, and 'Role playing' as an Other Interests option. Then hit 'Search' at the end of the page, and there's the list of roleplayers of Elftown.


If you do this, copy the name of someone you think might be interested in joining, and I will cordially add them to the RP Council forum, and they will get an invitation like you all did.

Secondly, if you do not like 'spamming' people in the way I contacted you, then feel free to check out the Elftown Clans and vote for your favorite Fantasy Race: <poll:73926>

If you would like to be removed from the Council for any reason, I will gladly remove you, but please let me know by Message, so I will be reminded to do it. I would love to see everyone stick around, however, and have fun!!!
-will

2007-02-21 [xido]: One more major point:
If a Council member shows up and says that they are a given race, their rank supercedes all others. This includes [Hedda], too.

Meaning: If an Elftown Council member shows up and asks to be Clan Leader, they are. That's it, no questions.

When all Clans have a Leader, and a House Leader is chosen from the Majority Clan in each House, we will begin the hard work of reshaping Elftown's RPGs.

2007-02-21 [Once upon a dream]: You should have a faerie clan ^^

2007-02-21 [xido]: There are two:
Sylvan Clan - Sidhe &
Sylvan Clan - Unsidhe

Do you know the difference? I will post a link up about them:
Sidhe and Unsidhe Descriptions

2007-02-21 [Veltzeh]: What exactly do the members of each Clan and their Leaders do, or what should they do?

2007-02-21 [xido]: "They will post info, writings, media, and concerned errata in the Clans pages," responds Draco-[xido], "and when it comes time to do an ECM Session on the creature(s) of your Clans' umbrella (sub-types of related creatures), the Clan will benefit as a whole if its submission for the ECM is the best of the submissions provided. For now, that is the only promo of doing it, however, in the future, I will be focusing more on the Clans for RP reasons."

"Remember too," he continues, "that the-roleplay-initiative is the basis for this action. Roleplaying IN-CHARACTER as a creature-character is both honored and recommended at ALL TIMES. So feel welcome here, and do as you please. I am hosting a mission party in the Draconic Clan Hall for now as an examle of how to conduct business-as-usual."

2007-02-21 [Stephen]: Wow, I'm lost...

2007-02-21 [Estantia]: I think I agree there... *Estantia walks into the light* but it seems to me my role elsewhere as a peacemaker and diplomat suits my species well, though knowing more about the role would be good, not to mention explaining this confusion with all the different wikis a bit.

2007-02-21 [Earoluim]: * appears before all* Hello there * bows * I recieved an invitation to join this forum, how may I be of service?

2007-02-21 [Estantia]: From what I can tell, this place is here to set up how all of the different species interact within their kind and with other species... acting as a sort of parliament for the fantasy creatures. In which case the first step would be understanding this thing and deciding on a species.

2007-02-21 [Earoluim]: Deciding on a species for what exqactly ?

2007-02-21 [Estantia]: sorting out the definitions/artwork/culture for these creatures I think, maybe to use as a guide for any rp in elftown when it comes to fantasy creatures

2007-02-21 [Earoluim]: But how can onesay how one species should act against its own or another.

2007-02-21 [Estantia]: that's where the group bit comes in i think, with more people they can discuss and sort it out. the paliament thing might be to get everyone to decide on the big stuff. that's how I'm reading it, but I may be very wrong...

2007-02-21 [Earoluim]: But I don't get why a certain race should act a certain way, noone forces the way someone acts. THe way you grow decides who and what you are. Noone can take that away from you, or replace it with something else.

2007-02-21 [Estantia]: they're not trying to do that, from what I can see this is more to define general relationships, not individual ones. For example in general elves are known for their affinity for nature and dislike of conflicts due to peaceful lives. That's not to say that an elf who comes from a normal home doesn't find the idea of fighting exciting and can't become a mercenary, that would be restricting your creativity and character.

If they tried to stop that they would probably have a mob after them AND defeat the point of this!

2007-02-21 [Yoruno]: Oh... a gathering of creatures... interesting ^___^

2007-02-21 [Earoluim]: ah, thank you for clearing that issue for me, I have soared through this forum a bit and have noticed that the creator no offense to him, has taken most of what is going on here from other wiki's and from dungeons and dragons. how much more does one want to censor fantasy, not pointing that directly at anybody.

* bows head To Youno* I apologize * bows To Estantia, I have not been mannerable, I am Earoluim.

2007-02-21 [Estantia]: It's ok. I just said what I interpreted this thing as. anyone else got different views on it?

2007-02-21 [Once upon a dream]: Ah, *Is enlightened* I want to become a part of the Sidhe clan.

2007-02-22 [Dasner]: "I would like to be a part of the Draconic Clan." Dasner says happily.

2007-02-22 [Kaelin]: I am intrigued by the Gryphon Clan, but I noticed that the page for is does not contain much information. Are there any rules in place for it?

2007-02-22 [Shadowsoul]: i'm interested in this but how do i go about it all?

2007-02-22 [xido]: Hello everyone. I am the current creator of the pages. If you choose to lead a page, let me know, so I can change the ownership over to those who will moderate it. I am the current moderator of the Draconic Clan, who is always accepting new members.

Make sure to read through the few old pages of comments (this page), and get an idea for what we're going for here. There are not too many comments yet, as this is still a pretty young project, and hence, not much content on the pages.

I agree, I borrow a lot of ideas from other sources, and my personal favorite is, in fact D&D by http://www.wizards.com/dnd/

This is in no way to say that a new roleplayer here in the wiki is unwelcome if they have never played D&D. Just the opposite: EVERY ROLEPLAYER IS WELCOME HERE.

We shall be creatures. We shall all be characters. Or at least we'll try. Decide on a fantasy or fiction race, and choose the Clan that best emulates that race.

Not every Race is currently represented by a Clan. Message me personally with any new Clan ideas.

Each Clan will be asked to decided its own role, laws/bylaws, rules, structure, membership, values, goals, etc. Each Clan is part of a House (GOP or MGP), and some races are members of the Fantasy Endangered Species List, because they have 1% or fewer representation on the Representative Poll, the Poll that governs us all:

<poll:73926>


Currently, the poll says that our GOP House Leader must be an Undead, and the Minorities Groups Leader (2%-7% of polled creatures) must be either a werecreature or one of the Wild and Savage Races. When these two positions are filled, and each Clan has at least one member/leader, we will begin making real decisions together, as a big group of fantasy races, who work together in some respects, and in competition in others.

EACH CLAN MAKES ITS OWN RULES AND LAWS. ALL CLANS MUST ABIDE BY THE LAWS CHOSEN BY THE TWO VOTING HOUSES (the GOP and MGP - the fantasy GOP & the fantasy minority) WHEN IT IS DECIDED AS A UNISON HOUSE VOTE (both GOP and MGP vote the same way).

The first thing everyone should do is to check out the Creature_List and decide on your favorite fantasy/fiction creature, including also the fantasy humans of the Human Clans.

The Humans will always be in the GOP, and the Humans will never Lead the House. They are known as the House Moderators, and work between the GOP and MGP for solutions and integration. They are the default race, if you are unsure.

People can join multiple Clans, but if a Clan says otherwise, it is a Clan Law, and it should be abided.

We will come up with more ideas and laws as time goes on. For now, feel free to roleplay a new fantasy creature-character or three, and make this Council a really fun place for Roleplayers to network and get to know each other. Also, anyone here can get involved!

Take Elftown Back! ;)
-will

2007-02-22 [Estantia]: in which case I would like to join the human clan, leading everything doesn't suit me, but peacekeeping I'm fine with.

2007-02-22 [Xarzi]: RP Council? What exactly is the point of this wiki here if you don't mind my asking. I have been here for awhile and I have never heard of an RP council.

2007-02-22 [Earoluim]: I would like to register to be the leader of the minorities, since i am of the lycan clan.

2007-02-22 [Fizban]: I am so extremely confused by all this.

2007-02-22 [Estantia]: i admit it's not clear, but heading over to the forum helps. there's discussion of various issues with these ideas there.

2007-02-22 [xido]: OOC: Great, [Estantia]! I love your motivation to keep the peace. If your Clan would like to start a Counsel of Peace, I would be willing to host it from the Temple of the Light. One of my unwritten storylines with no players involved was of that nature. Feel free to initiate that, if it suits your Human Clans fancy. The first human Clan will certainly be a memorable one. ;)

[Xarzi], please review the older comments for this page. It is both a RP area, a Council for RPers, and a place to network with others either in-character, or, as I am now, as a moderator.

The Wiki Fiction Roleplay has sponsored this Council, and the-roleplay-initiative supports its ideals.

[Fizban], please hang around and see what happens. Maybe seeing it in action will help. Estantia is right, the forum will help you. Everyone has been added, and soon people will be able to add themselves, but for now, to keep order, I would like to be the only person who adds people to the forum for right now.

This page has both short-term and long-term goals, so please be patient with me for all of them. I am only one person. This Council is for all of us together. Clans can make their own structure for acceptance of members as Representatives, but I would like all Clans to accept any Elftowner as a member who is willing. Laws for Representatives are as the Clan determines. The Houses will respect all internal rules, as long as they don't determine the nature of the Houses, or parties. The Elftown Constitution will soon be written, though that is a long-term goal of more than three months. ;)

IC: "[Earoluim], your admission has been noted. Are you currently a member or leader of the Lycan Clan, an organization already registered with the Draconic Clan's initiatives? If you are not the leader of this Clan, do you have the blessing of the creator of the Lycan Clan page? Please have a blessing, and the Minorities Groups Party Leader position will be in your stead," Pesh informs the new admittant and representative of the Clans.

Notes:  OOC = Out-Of-Character; IC = In-Character

2007-02-22 [Estantia]: *Grins* The thing is I wouldn't make a counsel of peace, as I said I am already part of a peace keeper clan, the 11th Clan, though I am more than happy to act as a leading representative as I'm used to this kinda stuff, making an entire other sect where the 11th clan could already do the job seems a little pointless, no?

Also the fact that the clans in the two universes could get rather mixed up if i'm not careful, particularly as we have a grudge with the other first clan.

2007-02-23 [Piercedskull]: myyuu?

2007-02-26 [Earoluim]: Yes I am a part of the Lycan clan, as for a blessing I have not but can aquire one shouldn't be difficult.

2007-02-27 [Ravenclaw]: OK I was asked to join btu I feel like an ideot not knowing what the hell I'm joining lol. Can I get a compressed synopsis?

2007-02-27 [Estantia]: it's basically an rp to sort out how different groups of creatures work in elftown and their relationships with each other (so at least we have a reference)

2007-02-27 [Earoluim]: I thought it was for all clans and races ??

2007-02-27 [Estantia]: oops, it is, I didn't even realise I typed that! It's just that I've known pierced skull play a were-wolf with her best friend as a vampire (or vice versa) which is probably why I typed that, sorry.

2007-02-27 [Earoluim]: * Chuckles * It's ok don't worry about it."

2007-02-28 [Ravenclaw]: umm ok. I think I'm still confused lol

2007-02-28 [Estantia]: about which bit?

2007-02-28 [Ravenclaw]: the whole bit. I mean is this a game or is it more of an experiment?

2007-02-28 [Estantia]: it's both, the point of the rp is to sort out the cultures and form these agreements.

2007-02-28 [Earoluim]: I have returned with a blessing from my leader, I wish to apply formaly now for the leadership of the minorities party.

2007-03-01 [Ravenclaw]: Ok I think I get it. it's like an RP study to build specific races and cultures. Cool!

2007-03-01 [Estantia]: basically, but it works like a government of sorts I think.

2007-03-01 [Piercedskull]: I ddont like the goverment

2007-03-01 [Estantia]: yes, and? that doesn't mean you won't like this.

2007-03-01 [Piercedskull]: Quuu

2007-03-02 [xido]: OOC: "2007-02-28 Gunlouc: I have returned with a blessing from my leader, I wish to apply formaly now for the leadership of the minorities party."

I will accept your Clan's blessings, but make certain that you have posted this in the comments on Lycan Clan, and be sure to help the owner with the Were Clans, which will host multiple Clans (because of the diversity of the races). I will change the above House Leader when I have seen your comment on her page expressing the same.

Also, in case more new people show up wondering what to do, and any of you reply to them, make certain you tell them to read through old comments on this page. I am going to delete some chat here to keep them small.

"Estantia: yes, and? that doesn't mean you won't like this."

Actually, I think that pretty much anyone would like this form of government, because it is THEM. That is a fun way to work in teams. Elftown Clans are the focus of this group for now. Let's keep on task for just a while, then we can get slacky. See what the Elfin Clan has done so far. Recreate their successes.
-will

2007-03-02 [Ravenclaw]: So as in the government we would vote on what specific species have certin traits. Like one person wuld believe that werewolves are solitary creatures whereas I believe they have a tendency to "pack". We would discuss it and come to a reasionable conclusion. Btw an intresting fact: someone who disagrees with the way the governemnt is run is called a Disestablishmenttarinist. but not an anarchist

2007-03-04 [xido]: Yes, Ravenclaw, I think you have it perfectly correct. The Clan will be the ones to decide the standard based on all the facts brought forward. In the meantime, the Clans are hangouts for creative people to do more to bring everyone together, and work on fun projects as a group. It serves multiple purposes: RP, project, and Council of roleplayers and Elftowners. The RP Council of Elftown Clans will work toward defining how Elftowners would like to do things, and the ECM is an outlet that will help define this as time goes by.

Great insight, Ravenclaw. ;)
-will

2007-03-04 [J. "dragonruler" Rouse]: So I'll be contributing to the decision of my clans' traits? Correct?

2007-03-04 [Estantia]: That's the idea :)

2007-03-04 [Ravenclaw]: gotcha... now the only thing to do is to figure out what species I would prefer to gravatate toward. Werewolf, Vampire or Shape Shifter... those are y usual 3 but I prefer shape shifters in general. You never have to stick with one basic form and they aren't inhibited by the rules of teh full moon as most wearcreatures. Would it be possible for me to start a shape shifter clan???

2007-03-04 [Estantia]: hm, I'm actually a human shapeshifter, and as we generally keep the peace between all the clans it makes sense to be able to change (for example being a species other than human when visiting the vampires would make sense...)

2007-03-04 [Ravenclaw]: but then again a vapire's hightened senses would tell him/her that the animal form before them is infact a human. Unless the skill level of the shape shifter is rather high. A teenager visiting a vampire in the form of a cougar would be found out. But someone in their 30's would be much more dificult to detect. They might possibly be able to fool a werecreature as well.

2007-03-04 [Estantia]: They would of course be detected, but by appearing in a form other than human it means that vampires may be less tempted to make a snack out of them, making shapeshifters pretty good diplomats.

2007-03-04 [Danboo]: hello xido

2007-03-04 [Ravenclaw]: ah i gotcha

2007-03-06 [xido]: Hello Danboo (and everyone else).

I have an idea for you, you shapeshifter, you....  In the eventual proposal for Elftown Clans on the House presentation, there was going to be a choice of 'Multiple Clans'....  What if, say, a 'Multiple Clansperson' would be a member of an unspoken Clan of shapeshifters, and those people with more than one Clan would be subject to certain rules of the Clans, as per each Clan's own decision on who would be eligible for entry into the ECM session of a Clan's race.... I know that sounds funny.

But each of the Elftown Clans will have the chance to enter one of the Elftown Creature Marathon Contest List sessions as a group, and if the Clan decides that Shifter Clan members are not allowed to join in the final cut for session media, then it would be a decision made by the Clan (and not from the Houses - GOP and MGP) as to whether the final Clan-post was going to be from 'true' races of the Clans or not...

I did not plan for a Shifter Clan, and the <poll:73926> currently does not have a choice of multiple Clans/races. We will have to do some more discussions on this, but I think it might be a viable option in the future. ;)
-will

2007-03-06 [Ravenclaw]: sounds like a plan but I have another question. What does GOP and MGP stand for? lol

2007-03-06 [Estantia]: That won't work for everyone though, you can be a member of more than one clan without being a shapeshifter (for example a dragon/elf hybrid), and shapeshifters in the truest sense of the word are very rare among the population, not to mention that by their very nature they would belong to two clans as they have a base form and shifted forms.

2007-03-06 [Ravenclaw]: But Shapeshifters are a clan of their own. They aren't hybrids. Even though they could act as medeators between the clans they have a set of rules and legends of their own. Their shifted forms would still make them part of one clan. I would assume certin rules apply to Hybrids. Such as a concevable reason as to why a elf and a dragon can produce a hybrid. I mean it's a tad unbelievable for a dragon and a human to mate. Unless you say that a dragon has secondary humanoid form then the dragon would fall under the werecreature category. That means that its not a half blooded dragon and powers atributed to the hybrid would change. An Elfkind/weredragon could possibly have a third form. Elf, dragon then a mixture of the two forms. Then you have the problem of which clan the hybred would belong to. The werecreature or elf or since they would have a thrid form is there another clan for that one? Or would a hybrid be in a clan all it's own because it is a hybrid. And how would different hybrids coexist in a clan together seeing as how they are all different?

2007-03-06 [Estantia]: that was precisely my point ravenclaw... xido was suggesting multiple clanspeople (ie hybrids) be part of shapeshifters...

On the elf/dragon mix? I've just seen characters that are, don't shoot the messenger..

2007-03-06 [Ravenclaw]: When it comes to things I can't earn money at, like deciphering the possibilities with how an elf and a dragon can have a kid I tend to over think things.

2007-03-07 [Estantia]: from what I read they might have been a weredragon or just a shapeshifter...

2007-03-07 [Ravenclaw]: oh. I was in a game once where wherecreatures where bound to one form. Mine was half human half were and had 3 forms, human, raven and a mixture of both. there was another character who was a weredragon.

2007-03-07 [J. "dragonruler" Rouse]: How about just finding a middle ground instead of bickering? Obviously none of you are budging and clearly [xido] is trying to find some suggestions.

2007-03-07 [Ravenclaw]: We're not bickering, not in my opinion. We're just discussing views. I mean I don't think we're bickering... are we? Perhaps we should move this conversation to a message. That way everyone else can talk. We seem to be monopolizing the comments.

2007-03-07 [J. "dragonruler" Rouse]: *Waves hand* Nah, don't worry about taking up the comments... as long as it gets resolved, right?

2007-03-07 [Estantia]: the specifics can be discussed later, but asking what to do about the hybrids does pose an interesting point, let them be a part of both clans? Does the fact that someone (like ravenclaw's character) can shift between three forms make them a shapeshifter?

Personally I'd say yes to the first (can't see how else it would work) and no to the second, but that's mostly because I don't count werecreatures as shapeshifters...

2007-03-07 [J. "dragonruler" Rouse]: I'd have to agree with your first idea.

2007-03-07 [Ravenclaw]: Seeing them as a part of both clans works for me. That offers the player more chances to play among different clans if they wish. Say you have one character who feels like they belong to one clan more than the other. They can stay with that clan and play with their progress. If you have character who dosent feel like they belong to one or the other then that offers emotional conflict for them and they can have adventures with both clans if they choose.

2007-03-07 [Estantia]: Sounds good to me :) but what about the semi-shapeshifters? (the ones who can shift between one or two species only) treat them as hybrids and let them join one or both clans as they wish?

2007-03-08 [xido]: "Estantia: That won't work for everyone though, you can be a member of more than one clan without being a shapeshifter (for example a dragon/elf hybrid)"

True. [Ravenclaw], you are hereby charged to do the following:
Make a Shifter Clan for the Elftown Clans, which will be another of the Minor Clans. We will add shapeshifter to the FESL.
Also: GOP - Grande Olde Partye (what I termed the Majority House) and MGP - Minorities Groups Party (the Minorities House).
See the respective pages, The Fantasy GOP and The Fantasy Minority.

We will have to make Shifters and Multiple Clans different choices on the presentations, then. Hybrids will go to the latter. Remember, each Clan will have the ability to make its own internal rules and regulations, so that each is unique in a dual-House party system.

2007-03-08 [Estantia]: sorting out what counts as a shapeshifter will be interesting though :) any ideas?

2007-03-08 [Zero X]: I got invited to this so I guess you all wouldn't mind if I do a little selfess promotion.

I have a RP site at http://www.rpinfinity.com. Presently there are 6 RP's on the site. It has it's own chat room and message board (Where most of the RP happens untill we get enough people to take it to chat). The site features, polls, submission pages for your poems, art, stories, and whatever else, and also the feature to submit your own RP. If me and my admins like your RP idea, then you get your very own site that you have complete controll over.

So, if you're interested in more RP options, check out the site. We need more people and even a little would be appreciated. Thanks ^_^

2007-03-09 [Ravenclaw]: woah I know I asked if I could start one but I don't think I actualy expected to get the job. Thanks! I am going to assume that Shape shifters go under the Minorities page. You'll find my progress there. I should have it done tonight if I can pry myself from my vhs copy of Silence of the Lambs.

2007-03-09 [Estantia]: human clans seems to be locked...

2007-03-10 [xido]: Sorry, [Estantia], that should be fixed now. You are most welcome, [Ravenclaw]. ;)  Shifter Clan is formatted and good to go for you. It is art of both the Fantasy Minority and the Minor Clans, because it is non-polled, and therefore on the Fantasy Endangered Species List.

[Zero X], I don't mind the advertisement, but it does not take me directly to your page. Do you have to sign up to see them?

Also, hybrids are now a part of the Sci-Fi Factions
-will

2007-03-10 [Estantia]: Now that is a neat way to do it, and if one of the factions gets big enough they can form their own page.

2007-03-13 [Emporer Sensi]: If I'm going about this the wrong way and this question is answered elsewhere, then I sincerly apologize. But I did in fact receive a message [xido] Although at the time, I was a little frayed for time and did not reveiw the message as well as I should have.. But the question is: HOw and if I may join such an honoured and respected spot in the Council. And Hello [Ravenclaw]. We meet again.

2007-03-13 [Ravenclaw]: Hey ES, interested in being a shape shifter?

2007-03-16 [Emporer Sensi]: Ummmmmmmm, what's that?

2007-03-17 [Czestawa]: Wow I'm so happy to be here, I know I'm kind of late, but I'm here now. any questions?????

2007-03-17 [Tekkon KinKreet]: anyway i can help with anything, just tell me.

2007-03-17 [Ravenclaw]: Nevermind Es lol

2007-03-17 [Tekkon KinKreet]: nevermind what this comment said before, i was slightly lost unitl i reread.... sorry for any inconvienience(SP).....

2007-03-17 [Emporer Sensi]: Ok Raven, i figured it out, and I accept.

2007-03-18 [Ravenclaw]: cool

2007-03-20 [Emporer Sensi]: Send me the red tape and all.

2007-03-23 [xido]: Everyone is welcome to join the Elftown Clans, populate the members list, nominate and decide upon Clan leaders, and to start brainstorming ideas about how the Clan will approach being a group of active members and a lot of roleplayers.
The RP Council will convene on Polyhieronia when all Clans have at least one member, a leader (or chairperson, or Clan Alpha, or whatever - but only one member), and when the Clans have the involvement of at least four Council members.

I am asking [Paz] to be the proposed ECM Moderator, an impartial advocate and communicator to [Hedda] of the RP Council's needs and intentions.
-will (Pesh'tilionicus of Will's Dragons)

2007-03-23 [xido]: OOC: J. Dragonruler, did you in fact give [Earoluim] your blessings to lead the Fantasy Minority's discussions in the name of the Lycan Clan or not?

2007-03-23 [J. "dragonruler" Rouse]: *Nod* I did.

2007-03-23 [xido]: Indeed. Thank you.
Please see Were Clans, and feel free to do as you all see fit in there. You may have a few more members show up if you're lucky and advertise well enough. If a Council member shows up, they have the right to usurp Were Clan Representative leadership in the House if they so choose. I am trying to make this a welcoming transition for them to the Elftown Clans, and I wish this to end up being democratically sound without guilt or hurt feelings. If a Council wishes not to lead, they are allowed to do that as well.
-will

2007-03-23 [J. "dragonruler" Rouse]: Woa, wait a second. What about usurping a representative?

*Nods* I'll play around with information to make it clean and the best. Who are the leaders on that wiki page (the listed spaces?)

2007-03-23 [xido]: No one yet. The forum that works along with the page already has the members of the Lycan Clan added to it (before I kicked myself out of the Clan forum).

I would like the RP Council to welcome Council members openly, and if they choose to lead, we should let them. They are the Council, anyways. In those cases, usurped power is surely an equal and respectful action, and not one of hostility and dominion. A Council member may even elect not to lead the Clan. All is perfectly possible, but it may be up to the Were Clans themselves to decide this fact. It is all up to you (and the others of your Clan, of course). ;)

2007-03-23 [J. "dragonruler" Rouse]: My members consisting of the forum members? *Nods* We shall see.

2007-03-23 [Estantia]: It will be interesting to see how many humans come in, but it's more likely more will join when they see what we do...

2007-03-26 [xido]: All questions about the Elftown Clans and the RP Council will be welcomingly answered by [Keyurg Kirosake].

2007-03-26 [Emporer Sensi]: I am here.

2007-03-27 [Sins to Virtues]: Ehhh RP council, wtf?

2007-03-27 [xido]: Yes, indeed. ;)
Feel free to join and/or help out with any of the Elftown Clans for now, and more will be done as a full Council later, when all Clans have at least one member and at least one Representative for the Clan. So far, I have seen some great work on the Elfin Clan, Dwarfin Clans, Draconic Clan, Tauric Clan and a few others.

Join whichever you please, and feel free to help with writing and media (like pictures and stuff) for your Clan. The RP Council will work on three specific projects until future notice:
  - Elftown Creature Marathon
  - The Creature_List
  - The Official Elftown RPG-related Contests (mentioned on the-roleplay-initiative, along with the initiatives of the Wiki Fiction Roleplay to create and maintain a working Creative Writing and Anachronism Guild of Active Wikipages)

Any other issues or questions can be forwarded to [Keyurg Kirosake]. ;) Thanks, all.
-will

2007-03-27 [Emporer Sensi]: Ok, so as not to disrupt the good working order of this fine wiki. Is my wiki a "Clan" Or do these clans you speak of centered only here?

2007-03-29 [Sins to Virtues]: Yah i just got some random Message, prolly cause i own the dead Roleplayers Unite

2007-03-29 [Emporer Sensi]: I got some dead ones too...*kicks* Ya, dead.

2007-03-29 [Estantia]: actually it's because you have role-player in your interests list...

2007-03-30 [Sins to Virtues]: oooo =D

2007-03-31 [xido]: Sensi, please remind me, which wikipage are you referring to? All Clans are listed on the Elftown Clans page, and represent the factions of the Representative Poll, <poll:73926>.

Dead wikipages are okay. Sometimes they revive. Others simply do not.

2007-03-31 [Sins to Virtues]: I made it the like 2nd week I started on ET, and it lasted about a year or so.... Then splat... Then i tried making things more interesting and i think by that time everyone forgot every thing and just sorta left it..

2007-04-02 [xido]: Loos of interest and dropping members tends to be one of the largest problems with RPing on Elftown. Some day we will come up with ways to retain more members for longer... But for now, that is only an idea.
-will

2007-04-02 [Estantia]: that would be more useful than dividing elftown up into clans...

2007-04-02 [xido]: If you would like to volunteer a solution, the Council is always open to hearing your thoughts and concerns. There is no division that cannot be networked and connected. I have no solution to propose at this time. My solutions are finding their way here. At least this page gives us a platform to discuss these kinds of things.
-will

2007-04-02 [Estantia]: We actually discussed this on the forum for a bit, that dividing up elftown into clans and imposing rules on people wouldn't make it too popular for all the people who don't particularly role-play, plus all the people that don't understand the relationships between clans and cultures would bring the system down, imagine the effect of playgans amongst the pagans. The system might work better in a SOLELY rp-based site, but on elftown it would simply encourage discrimination from those who don't understand and a whole lot of fuss from those that do...

Did anyone understand that?

2007-04-03 [Sins to Virtues]: umm, i'm lost lol

2007-04-03 [xido]: I am sure that creative people out there will find ways to network and connect in new, fun ways, to beat this concept of separation where there is simply an ordered platform for new ideas. As for imposing rules, each Clan is being given the opportunity to make its own rules, not the ones laid down by one single person. That's the beauty of it.

I can only hope that this becomes more apparent in the future.

2007-04-03 [Estantia]: yes, creative people wll, but you're forgetting that there's a lot of people on elftown who aren't creative... and they'll ruin the ideas.

2007-04-03 [SilverFire]: Ah the ever optimistic defeatest approach. 'Someone'll ruin it, so let's not even bother trying'. That's a fairly hefty insult you're waving around there, and I'm sure everyone you personally thought was uncreative would disagree with you. Not that I'm suggesting RPing should be forced on every ETer, but I think you're doing a lot of Elftowners a great misjustice with your generalisations.

2007-04-03 [Sins to Virtues]: ok sooo how do i get into these clans lol?

2007-04-03 [Estantia]: I never said not to bother trying... I was saying that the original idea may need to be altered in order to make it work in a way that works for everyone, not just the very avid rpers or the semi rper's or artists.

I wasn't talking about a majority either, but you have seen how even a minority can ruin it. I don't want that to happen, so preparing for it in advance to make the idea more adaptable would be better.

(I'm not meaning offence to anyone, but I always end up taking the role of debater for the unrepresented side, and to be fair, I probably didn't express myself quite right)

2007-04-04 [SilverFire]: It's hardly an unrepresented side you're taking in this debate. ;)

2007-04-04 [Estantia]: I've seen one other person who thinks this idea needs to be modified to work... as it is I can see it stirring up confusion and enmity...

2007-04-04 [SilverFire]: Uhm... you're not in the right forums then. :) You're telling us nothing that hasn't been said before, by many people.

2007-04-04 [Estantia]: How have you considered altering it to make it work then?

2007-04-04 [SilverFire]: It's not my idea to altar, but I believe Xido took all their suggestions into consideration. He tends to be very thorough.

2007-04-04 [Estantia]: *nods* it would be interesting to see those developments though, that way we can all help develop it, that way they can't say it only represents one viewpoint

2007-04-06 [Sins to Virtues]: Yah, what he said....
=D

2007-04-06 [Estantia]: sorry, I forgot about your q, once you've worked out which clan you want to join you might want to message the leader to check it's ok (though it's pretty likely the answer will be "yes, bring more!") or if there's no leader message xido about becoming the tentative leader

2007-04-06 [de Morte]: We could always use more members in the Undead Clan, if you would wish to join. :)

2007-04-06 [Sins to Virtues]: oo I have a question about that, Why is there like a werewolf clan, and an undead clan, isn't a werewolf a being of the undead?

2007-04-06 [Sins to Virtues]: and isn't D'Morte french for death? lol... Named all my people on EQ2 a french name, such as Reparer Blessures =D

2007-04-06 [de Morte]: Its fun if you go look up "de Morte" is has a lot of meanings, but they all do have a connection with death.

And werewolfs are not dead, they are still mainly human, but change when angry or with the moon.

2007-04-06 [Sins to Virtues]: ooooo... The whole moon thing... Kinda makes me think of undead =D

2007-04-06 [Sins to Virtues]: hmm.. I look at the undead clan =D

2007-04-06 [Sins to Virtues]: Oooo can before i join a clan... What is this all about lol, is there going to be like one giant war or soemthing. For the reasons of all of these clans. Or are these all just to be classified by some sort??

2007-04-07 [xido]: To sum up a bit about diversity and the unrepresented view:
That is why there are so many Clans. Because there will certainly be different views on how Clans and hence, fantasy races should be treated. That's why each Clan is allowed to make its own internal rules, and the Clans all meet together to decide on the big stuff. That way everyone, including the minorities, is represented.

I think the first thing everyone should do when they wish to join, is to choose what your fantasy race would be if you were given the choice of anything you pleased. That race typically has a Clan it belongs to or leads, at least so long as it is listed. If it is not, then it might belong to another Clan by virtue or some kind of linked heritage. It is all up to the Clan members, really. The Clans are still in formation, which means right now is the most flexible time for them to decide what is what.

Once you've chosen a fantasy race, it will likely have a Clan already. If it doesn't, everyone is free to make up a new Clan, and list it on the Minor Clans. When the RP Council can convene for the first time, changes will be decided by a vote. In this way, the Council is both a RP platform as well as a real way to voice your opinion to a group that welcomes you. It is both political and creative, all in one.

The biggest part is that it is in reaction to the ECM and <poll:73926>, which a LOT of people voted on. I have to imagine that those people would like to be a fantasy race other than a Human, Elf, or the other current ones. If that is the case, maybe those people also want to belong to a group on ET. That is what the Elftown Clans are all about. Giving people a chance to belong to a group and maybe even do something cool to make some new art, writings, or media, or maybe just to vote on something that the Clan posts. In this way, members might affect the outcome of future Clan actions and decisions. Creative and political in one. ;)

I hope that answers a lot of questions, or at least starts some more discussions over the matters raised here.
-will

2007-04-12 [Sins to Virtues]: Yah, that pretty much sums it all up, thank you Xido =p

2007-04-16 [xido]: No problem. ;)

2007-04-16 [Estantia]: The humans are diplomats ^_^

2007-04-16 [Emporer Sensi]: If I may, we must all see and ackknowledge that a fellow RP Council member [Steel Mal'ak] Has decided to leave ET and follow her dreams. This cause me great pain of loss and incerdiable sorrow. I shall miss her immortaly, and Respect her decision. We have lost a great asset and person from our Order.

2007-04-18 [xido]: I appreciate that insight, and I agree, it is a loss. Let us give thanks to her following her dream, and let us all look toward the future with motivation and continuing insightfulness. Sometimes loss and loneliness can be good factors to get one motivated to do more writing and reading, which is what we're all about. ;) Thanks for the note. Perhaps one day our good friend will return, renewed and refreshed.

And yes, the Human Clans are diplomats and moderators between the Houses when they cannot see eye to eye. This way, peace is often sought before war in times of need (though maybe a mock war would be fun in the future too.... It will give the humans something to do, and make their job vitally important. :D)

2007-04-18 [Estantia]: The fact I can shapeshift gives me an advantage too.. :)

2007-04-19 [xido]: ;) So you will want to know the activities of the Shifter Clan as well, then, won't you? :D You shifty one, you.

2007-04-19 [Estantia]: I only shapeshift due to magic, not by species, so it doesn't really count.

2007-04-19 [Ravenclaw]: Yes please. I need someone to bounc ideas off of. It's basicaly dead. no one seems to want to join

2007-04-19 [Estantia]: humans is even less popular, people would rather be anything but ordinary, and human counts as ordinary.

I'd love to bounce ideas though

2007-04-19 [Estantia]: and I've just been reminded that Polyhieronia essentially is a place to toss around ideas in rp format, so you can come over there too.

2007-05-04 [xido]: this is true. I don't see humans as being ordinary. Not if they are Fantasy Humans. Look at Avatar: the Last Airbender. That is a way popular cartoon.

A human is like a blank slate. Ready for unique characteristics. ;)
-will

2007-05-04 [Estantia]: I never said it wasn't, just how it was normally perceived, stereotypes have a lot of force.

2007-05-07 [xido]: It has been brought to my attention that the chances of the Elftown Clans concept becoming an 'official' ET alternative to the current Fantasy Race is little to none. I now ask the members of the RP Council to convene on its first mission: supporting the Elftown Clans as an independent wikipage of groups until further notice.

[Torr-maat] and I have contemplated the future possibilities of the Clans, the RP Council, the WFR and the-roleplay-initiative, and we both feel that if the Council and Assembly feel so strongly against the concept of the Clan structure, that we should move forward in a truly independent and separate structure from what Elftown is currently.

I know that a few of you were looking forward to the Fantasy Race alternative on our house presentations, but so far it has yet to change in the slightest. The RP Council will still be represented by the elected and nominated Clans members, as per the original concept, if it is the will of the Council to continue without the rest of Elftown's support.

I for one would like to see the Clans instated, but if it is shot down, it will most likely become simply a network for members of the WFR, the Community and related organizations.

Does this rest well with all of you? What are your ideas or concerns?
-will

2007-05-07 [Estantia]: It could work as a base for the roleplayers within elftown, but if another heddate site like writersco were created for roleplayers of course then it could become an integral part of that.

2007-05-07 [Veltzeh]: Are we now a bit more receptive to RPG Realm? ;)

2007-05-07 [Estantia]: Erm, you did see my name right near the top of that list right...?

2007-05-07 [Estantia]: Ok, I thought I was 48, turns out I was 91 >.<

2007-05-08 [xido]: After being shot down mercilessly, yes, I must admit RPG Realm would make the semantics of these projects a more admirable endeavor.... But only because the Elftown Clans idea did not win over very well with upper management....  :/

2007-05-08 [Estantia]: It also fits the ideas better, because everyone there is a roleplayer ^_^

2007-05-15 [Stephen]: Hey, I see RPG Realm. If you guys have ANY ideas at all, or want to help in anyway, then please message Veltzeh or I. We're a bit slow moving right now, because we need more members before Hedda will do anything. He's already told he he'd be willing, if we can get a good handful of non-Elftown members interested. I'm sure we can implement parts of this idea into the finished RPG Realm community. :-)

2007-05-16 [Estantia]: I'd like to help, but I don't see what way I could...

2007-05-16 [xido]: Believe it or not, I had no intentions of making the Elftown Clans RP-oriented only, but I did want that for this group, the RP Council. I wanted them to link together intimately, but not be completely united. The RP Council was for the RPers, and the Elftown Clans were for anyone who wanted a fantasy race not already listed, which was sponsored by the RP Council for reasons already spoken. I wanted them to be two separate units linked by method of consistency. That's my two cents about the need for RPers in the Council, and not the Elftown Clans. RPers in the ET Clans would just know about beasties from the Creature List more readily, in my opinion. In that way, I wanted our list of fantasy races to be comprehensive and knowledgeable about what creature was what. Anybody with even a faint understanding of RPG monsters would have a good idea about what creature belonged in what clan.

Ok, aside from the ramble...
I agree, the Clans alternative to fantasy race would be fantastic in the RPG Realm setup, but I still have an interest in seeing it happen here in Elftown too. It may be more difficult to incorporate it here with the current conditions surrounding it, but I still feel that this and the methods behind RPG Realm are perfect for Elftown usage as well, and should be launched here before they are utilized in any future projects. That's they way I see it.

As far as helping, we need programmers with an understanding of laying out the User's house presentation, and the coding necessary to make the changes to that interface. I have advertised everywhere I could think of, so I fear there is little need for more advertising.

Any other input or ideas for what else can be done would be welcomed...

2007-05-17 [Estantia]: If the system does get implemented on a large scale in RPG realm we can find out what causes problems and sort them out, in effect having a 'trial run'. It may end up showing that the system works well enough for Hedda to consider it for elftown.

I think I could help by looking after sections of the wiki, I do run one or two things and set up a system of pages for my stuff that looks neat. I'd be happy to do that elsewhere.

2007-05-24 [Stephen]: Actually, RPG Realm needs more non-Elftown support than anything right now. Getting friends to sign up on the non-Elftown member list would be really nice. :)

[xido] - I do understand what you mean, but as I've said before, I don't see Hedda doing it. :(

2007-05-24 [Estantia]: hm, i don't know many out of et people who rp...

2007-06-02 [xido]: Really? I know quite a few, and have invited quite a number of them to join ET...

I agree, it is not going to be implemented anytime soon, but at least it has been created for future reference.

Estantia, what do you feel you could do best for moderating the wikipages? I would be more than happy to see you have more of a part in keeping things moving smoothly.

2007-06-02 [Estantia]: Good question... I can do quite a lot of things but I'd probably be best at writing information on the species or sorting out a layout...

by the way, would fantasy humans be split into professions? Such as warrior, spellcaster, etc? If so then is it fair for the human clan to be only diplomatic?

2007-06-03 [xido]: The Creature List always welcomes new content on the pages, of course.

If you feel that further subdividing the Clan is the best choice, it is purely your decision at this point. Professions, Titles, Ranks or Classes like these are not necessarily racial in nature, though if that is not important to your vision of the Clan's future.

See the WFR Char Rank Page for a few ideas on ranks and professional titles if you would like.

2007-06-03 [Estantia]: It just seems that in many cases the people who realy wish to be another creature may also wish to be part of a diplomatic clan, and we all know what humans are capable of. Maybe it would be better to have two or three (or one) diplomat per race?

2007-06-03 [xido]: I think all the Clans are capable of a certain level of diplomacy, and since each Clan will have an appointed or elected official to vote for them, the leader (or chairperson, or head of Clan or whatever) will be the primary diplomat to the officials that the Clans answer to (in the future, this person will be someone delegated from the Council or [Hedda], should things take shape positively or even that strange word, 'officially'. Humans take a special place in moderating, since they are not technically fantasy or fictional races (though our imaginations can fix that problem), and they help to keep solid relations and communication between the Fantasy Majority GOP House and the Fantasy Minority, or MGP House. As a more 'common' race, they are assumed to be part of the GOP House, even though they were not listed on <poll:73926>.

2008-03-10 [Earoluim]: Can someone send me a message breaking all of this down? PLease ?

2008-03-11 [Estantia]: from what I've seen there may not be need, the clans still seem to be up but the council's not? [xido], what's happening?

2008-03-11 [xido]: The RP Council died, but the Clans live on.

The WFR will soon be under new Guild Leadership, and with my choice to take up a professional niche in RPGs and art marketing/production, I am trying to wrap up any loose ends that may exist.

No Elftown Clans member will be required to join the WFR, but I believe that the Elftown Guards will have to work with the WFR Guild Knights and Guards in order to best represent our fostered gamers and fiction fan community.

This page would have stayed enacted had there been any real progress in the last year, but with the RRPG's mods unwilling to renovate Elftown features, and the Guild's choice not to leave or over-branch itself, it's fair to say that asking Elftown Clans lead members to at least apply to the Guild with a character or written example application, or a simple letter of intent to show that they are truly willing to be involved in a proactive project would be enough reason for me to see them continue being a part of a project already too large for its boots.

Since no one understood being a part of a wiki-page group based around a forum of invited and open membership, I am calling this project a 'closed-door' project, in that it will no longer simply allow people to join at a whim, and I will no longer invite random people, which seemed to annoy more than it did to create interest.

With that said, if you would like to debate the issue peacefully, I am still open to suggestions, but no one here is losing their position.

The Elftown Clans remain open, active, and welcoming new members and leadership for those Clans who do not already have instated leadership, but until it is a project that the populace and Crew of Elftown accepts as productive and stable, it is not something I want to leave tagging behind while I walk away from overall leadership of the Guild and my projects later this year.

[Estantia], if you would like to send [Earoluim] a message describing the manners and methods of the Elftown Clans, as they relate to Fantasy Races and the Creature_List creatures (especially those dealt with in the ECM), I would adore if you could explain those details.

Who is in control of these overhead pages is in change. The Clans structure and sovereignty are not.

Thanks and best wishes,
-will

2008-03-12 [Earoluim]: Thank you and you always have my support in these mattters.

2008-03-14 [xido]: Thank you as well, and you are absolutely welcome. If you need anything else answered, just let me know, or tug on the arm of someone here. Aside from the renovation of this page and the accordance of the Guild's proactive involvement, nothing else has changed.

2008-03-14 [Earoluim]: * Bows head and bows over*

2008-03-15 [xido]: *nods in accordance*

2008-05-14 [Stephen]: Small thing, the RRPG's mods have nothing against being on Elftown - Elftown just isn't a rpg site, and the Elftown Administration didn't want Elftown to become a rpg site, so we elected to create our own site. :p

2008-05-15 [xido]: Pardon my lack of concern for them, but the Elftown Administration has a hard time deciding on what's best for their members, especially when their members consistently tell them what they would like to see.

I have a hard time being compassionate toward an internal governance structure that cares little for the opinions of its community and a complete lack of dedication to forward movement in most aspects of the community's actions. It seems to be all for them, and nothing for anyone else. That is not a stable nor effective governing structure, and I think the flaws are finally starting to show themselves.

ET needs a hike in its member-orientation and fast. The numbers show everything. If you don't believe me, ask a Council Member: [Artsieladie]. It's not opinion; it's a fact. The Council has shown their true colors in countless ways, and since Elftown's population dwindles, they need to think of some new ways to keep people on board. Badges are not enough at this point. It's going to take some really thick community-oriented moves to get the town's head back above water. I certainly hope you agree. We are two of the most dedicated members this town has (along with others, mind you), and our thoughts go unnoticed despite large amounts of volunteer work put forward. If you can't take care of something proactively, chances are that it won't get taken care of. I have countless times tried to show the Council ways in which we could both promote membership morale as well as returning ET members, and have consistently been told that my ideas were not helpful nor worth putting forward effort upon.

In any organization, the most efficient method of governance includes having a primary non-member board of directors, and a consumer advisory board for members to voice their concerns. We have a suggestions forum, and a whole lot of crew members that don't want to do anything when we ask them to change something. I have personally only had one suggestion taken into consideration by Hedda himself, and that was a coding error that produced a strange result, which he then fixed that same night in one fell swoop. Aside from this, Elftown's progress has been greatly undermined by vested personal interests (note: the same reason they tell me that I am too pushy about my ideas - them being personal interests and all).

I am not taking the Council's concerns into account any longer. It is no longer prudent nor efficient to do so. Hope that helps clear it up on why I don't want to move forward with the RRPG idea any more... I don't find it uninteresting; it's just something that is clearly not going to move forward, because only we want it to happen. Not only that, but it would also take away some of their members, rendering this community in an ever worse condition if we choose not to return as often because of the transition. It is a lose-lose situation for them, and therefore not something they care to consider.

I hate to sound like an ass, but that's clearly not an obstacle that will be overcome in a few days or weeks. Elftown needs a facelift and a resurrection, or else it will dwindle down to the Council and a handful of brown-nosing bunny-people from the planet Goo-Gah who stick around to watch it wash away in the flood of the jaded people who have been here for years and seen little results from their work on forward progression. Just my take on it,
-will

2008-05-15 [Veltzeh]: Whoa. I don't even know where that came from! O_o But as far as I know, Elftown isn't a commercial business, and you seem to be talking about ET like it was one, xido. It doesn't mean your tricks wouldn't work, but eh... I don't know, I'm too clueless for this stuff. I wish I could explain more, but I'm not sure how to put it and I wouldn't like to unintentionally offend you.

2008-05-15 [Estantia]: Xido, I can't help but think you're being a little harsh, an entire conversion to a role playing site would only serve to alienate the people who don't like roleplaying, but are nevertheless valuable members and artists. Yes, maybe a complete conversion IS needed, I'm not saying it's not, but forcing so many people to jump on board with your ideas, despite what they may be or how good they are (I do like the idea) seems a bit forceful.

2008-05-16 [xido]: That's the thing: many of the ideas I have put forward over the last few years (not simply the last few weeks) have run into complete apathy from the Crew and Hedda. That's why I have simply given up on pushing forward with them any more. That's why you will not offend me by saying something lame. It won't work because it doesn't hurt me to know how short-minded the people and Crew of ET have become anymore.

It's true that Elftown is not commercial, but it's amusing to me how many times I have been told that my personal interests and 'pet projects' are not for ET's future, but ET is in and of itself a 'pet project' of this variety. So here, when I put a bunch of work forward and say, "hey, let's try this new idea, which might make ET even more popular and fun!" and get less than amicable response and a light pat on the back as the door closes behind me, it's no longer difficult for me to know that ET will simply not move forward anymore. Stagnation is apparently the best way to deal with new ideas and motivated individuals, it seems.

As far as I am concerned, this is only harsh because roleplaying is dealt with in a harsh manner, and I no longer care to hear how biased people think I am about this hobby. If I truly wanted to make a site ONLY about RPG, I would just go and make it. The facts here are simple: I have a hobby; I am good at my hobby; I want to share it with the world; I know how, and can do it without any incentive. Despite all of this, people see my actions as somehow trying to convert ET to something it is not, when it is obvious that that is exactly what the Town is: a place for people to have fun doing what they love. When some people's ideas are overrun by others, that is unfair. But saying that RPG-oriented ideas have no place in Et is exactly the hypocrisy that I am tired of dealing with. RPGs can happen without changing ET into a RPG-only site. If that was my intention, I would have simply left a long while ago. The fact of the matter is that I am an artist and writer as well, and I understand exactly what ET is and is not. I don't need a bunch of people to tell me that, like it's a clarification.

Finally, as I said before, this group (the RP Council) is no longer an active group. The Elftown Clans flopped when it was run by this group, and therefore I must salvage it or see all my hard work go down the tubes because of the apathy and non-motivation of others. I won't let that happen, and that is why I have decided that the WFR will take care of the Clans. Since the Guild actually knows how to productively run a project like this, I have no fear in allowing they and I the opportunity to keep the Clans working properly until a change occurs which will give us a better platform to be active.

I personally think that the RRPG will never move forward with the ET Crew's help. It's obvious that it is not a high priority for most members, and it is not beneficial to most people involved, outside of those who are ALREADY motivated and willing to work hard for a good result. The way I see it, moving forward is not something ET is very good at.

Again, ET is not commercial, but it is also OBVIOUSLY flopping in popularity, and my personal opinion is that this is highly due to some particular Crew Members (no names) being highly biased, extrememly unwelcoming to new members and ideas, and overtly apathetic to the wants and needs of others who have joined the community. Along with this fact, the governance structure does not create equality in any form; it only creates separation and more issues than necessary, and it also allows some people to get exactly what they want, while others must sit by helpless and do nothing (regardless of their skills, talents, or motivation to do more). That is a failing organizational structure to the core, and it will only show more and more as the years go by if something is not done to remedy it. That is not conjecture; it is a fact of life. Look at any business or non-profit organization... It will show you exactly those facts, no if's, and's or but's about it.

Agreed, I am being harsh. It's not easy to be nice and happy when everyone around you cares so little about what you think. In my opinion (since this page serves no purpose any longer) this is my page, and I can say what I want here. If it's too harsh, I would recommend not watching the page, and we can all let it fall into memory alone.

The Guild will continue to take care of the Elftown Clans so that this group is no longer necessary. And since I will be handing off Guild Leadership to [Kim_Lundin] later this year, no one can say that I am doing this for biased or 'pet project' reasons, since that was a lame excuse for telling me, "No" to begin with.

Alienating people who like to roleplay is not justified by saying that not allowing roleplay aspects into the community is a good idea. That's unreasonable and rude to those members who have a real and true urge to make a difference in their community (even if it does exist in cyberspace alone). They way I see it, my words are not nearly as harsh as the attitudes of those who wish to keep Elftown small and biased. Try being told that your ideas aren't good enough for five years in a row on a community that is about as popular as a platypus... THAT'S harsh. I am simply returning the favor. ;)

If I had simply asked everyone else to do the work for me and then sit back and do nothing, I could see how these words could be considered harsh. I have done the work for everyone else for years, and with little to no reward, outside of the popularity and membership of the WFR until recently... The way it looks to me, hard work is not rewarded here. Working for the 'pet projects' of the Crew is okay, but trying to make your own ideas move forward is a helpless move with no immediate results guaranteed or even expected. That is harsh.

It kind of makes me wonder exactly why I did join in 2003 when the site began.... If I can't make a difference, why am I here? Something tells me that I am not the only one who has questioned ET in this way. Knowing that, are these words really so harsh? What would you say in my position? What would you do?  Would you feel more inclined to try and make a difference if every time you turned around it went completel unnoticed or at best disregarded? Now think about the noobs who show up with a boat-load of ideas, and none of them do anything.... It's an interesting perspective, isn't it?
-will

2008-05-16 [xido]: PS: I really do appreciate that fact that y'all put up with the rants and I really do take your input into account.... Like I said, I am no longer offended by opposition to my ideas. It is a fact of life for me now on this site. I am glad that you put up with me long enough to read this shit, but it is really just that: me posting my thoughts on this page. It's not like anything is really going to get done here. I wish I didn't have to say that, but it's true.

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