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2012-01-03 20:48:04
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This wiki is open for everyone who ever had things to say about Shakespeare, dirty limericks or (un)conventional punctuation.

You can discuss anything and everything pertaining to poets and poetry: your favourite authors; the advantanges of certain rhyme schemes or forms; different ways of interpreting certain pieces, even specific lines; the development of the sonnet. Converse and debate to your hearts' content. There are only two rules:

1. Don't be an asshole. All inappropriate comments will be deleted.
2. Stay on topic. Straying to other forms of literature is okay, but we don't want to hear about flowers - unless it's in verse.


Because many of you will undoubtedly be poets yourselves, we cannot omit the chance to promote your own work and get advice/feedback. Just skip on over to the poetry discussion workshop.




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2008-02-09 [Chetleon]: I know, right? We've had to many discrepancies on Etown lately. It's ridiculous.

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: There are always too many discrepancies. I recall you being a factor not too long ago.

Fireblade, as you are so fond of sestinas, maybe you could link us to one that you think is great?

2008-02-09 [Triola]: Can I link too? :D

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: Link away!

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: I honestly have to say... I dislike the repetition.
So it is otherwise well written, and demands that you actually pay attention in order to get it, but the repetition just throws me off.

2008-02-09 [Triola]: Haha, the sestina is definitely not for you then :P And I would keep away from the villanelle as well, if I were you :P

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: Demands using the same word over and over again?

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: Ah. The example sestina by Dante Alighieri in the Wikipedia article pleases me much more. :3
See, in your example... It was the word 'tears' which annoyed me. It's an overused word already.

2008-02-09 [Triola]: Hmmm, I like the poem :3 But it's difficult to find words you can use over and over again like that, I will admit.

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: It tells something of the poem's overall quality that I didn't even notice the other words being repeated. It's just that one that really can't be used more than once in a piece... unless it's long enough. Or unless you're really, really good.

2008-02-09 [Triola]: That's the thing about sestinas, you really have to be incredibly good to be able to pull it off :P

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: I just might have to try it one of these days. xP

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: Oh, by the way, since you seem to be a regular now... want your own link up there? *points*

2008-02-09 [Triola]: Psschhh, I am a stalker, not a regular >.>

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: Yeaaaah right. I'd believe you, but you talk too much. But fine, be without advertising.

2008-02-09 [Triola]: Poetry really isn't my forte, I'll stick with art, if that's ok :P

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: *snort* It may not be your forte, but I recall dragging your ass on DP. That means your stuff is good.
However... suit yourself. ;3

2008-02-09 [Triola]: I always suit myself, as you well know :P

2008-02-09 [Cascading water lillies]: I believe hat as no-one mentions my little poetry wiki, Petals of the Reincarnation, it is not to anyone's taste. Good job I don't rely on my poetry, hey.

2008-02-09 [Triola]: You can't be a great poet until you've drunk absinth in Paris and died of either alcoholism or lunacy :P

2008-02-09 [Cascading water lillies]: Hehe. True :)

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: That means I'll probably never be a great poet :P

2008-02-09 [Fireblade K'Chona]: Sestina links? Let's see if I can find that one Neil Gaiman wrote which I really liked...

http://beatzo.livejournal.com/7507.html?nc=6

That's the one which made me decide to go write my own sestinas. Too bad they're bitches to write. My first one is kind of nonsensical, the second one...well, it was narrated by a crazy person and that helped, but the third one turned out all right.

2008-02-09 [Cascading water lillies]: Neil Gaiman is fantastic.

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: He is a genius. One of my literary gods.

2008-02-09 [Cascading water lillies]: You have taste! :D I agree, he is an utter genius.

2008-02-09 [Fireblade K'Chona]: If I ever write half as well as he does, I'll be happy. :)

2008-02-09 [Cascading water lillies]: :)

2008-02-09 [Chetleon]: Yes, Linderal I did have a sort of arguement not to long ago. But as I recall I am not the one who commited themselves to carrying the arguement to new levels. That was left to other parties, I did admit my fault, as they did not.

But oh well. Drama, drama, drama.

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: However that may be... shouldn't have brought it up. Byegones.

So where were we?

2008-02-09 [Cascading water lillies]: I'm sure I miss bits out on here or something, lol.
Anyways, anybody interested in String Theory?

2008-02-09 [Linderel]: What would that be, then?

2008-02-09 [Cascading water lillies]: It's a phrase to describe different String Theories, to suggest the existence of certain dimensions, instead of the usual four that is used in Relativity Theory. Depending on what theory you are reading/theorizing about, they each come with a different set of laws they adhere to. I reckon you can google it up for a more detailed explanation if you'd like. I find this sort of theory fascinating.

I think the idea of multi-universes makes a lot of sense, even though they are, after all, just theories, being that it is very hard to prove just what it 'the truth' and what is not 'the truth'.

2008-02-10 [Linderel]: I always found it fascinating to think that by every choice you make, you create countless other dimensions from the options not taken...
But, again, rule #2. Is there fiction dealing with this concept? I'm sure there must be.

2008-02-10 [Cascading water lillies]: Hm, well, again; that's debatable. Everything that is a theory, is just that, until it's proven in a laboratory, or a field test. To be honest, a philosopher, or theorist, I always think, has to have a brilliant imagination, as a lot of it is guess work. So, the most plausible theory that comes up will, for some people, be their utter belief, until the next one comes along, and blows that theory out of the water.

That said, unseen things, such as gravity, atoms, ions, E.M.F's and so on, are not theories, they are proven theories, so I think that it is only a matter of times before something is invented that enables us to test some of these great theories out. You never know who might be right.

Somebody recently discovered the Theory of Everything.

Just a slight tangent here. Do you believe in ghosts?

2008-02-10 [Chetleon]: Yes, the idea and theory of mulitple universes, built of parts and nick nacked pieces of each other is very facscinated.


And "Enslaving fools" I Beling in ghosts.
I have experienceed them.
They're real as you or me. Or otherwise.

2008-02-10 [Fireblade K'Chona]: Random question-what do you guys think the biggest three topics of poetry are? As in, the ones that almost every poet writes about at some time?

My opinion: love (duh), death (we poets are a morbid bunch), and beauty.

Naturally the topics intertwine a bunch, but if you were to sort poetry, I think almost all of it would fall under one of those three categories.

2008-02-10 [Cascading water lillies]: I think you would be right there. There's the metaphorical, which can fall under any subject, as long as it is only metaphorical, but yes, love definitely exists in almost any piece of work, should the writer choose to do so. It's one of the inevitabilities of life, I think, just as death is, and beauty is something that we all strive to achieve, want to look at, want to preserve, e.t.c.

2008-02-10 [Fireblade K'Chona]: You make a good point. I sort of want to see what other people think before I respond further, though. :P

2008-02-13 [Chetleon]: I think that Depression is another big one, and lust. Beauty is more of a lust thing. As is sexuality.

So Lust, the Morbid, and Strange. I think those about cover it.

2008-02-13 [Cascading water lillies]: Don't forget humor, controversy, etc..
It's one of those questions where you have to think carefully about it, because there is actually a lot of different subjects we choose to write about. Anything that's important to us.

2008-02-13 [Fireblade K'Chona]: I still think death and love are on the table for the big three, but remember that 'lust' can kind of fall under 'love' and 'depression' under 'death', a bit. Controversy's an interesting one, though.

2008-02-13 [NukleaЯ EveЯgloW™]: what about pride of a race or country, or racism?

2008-02-15 [Chetleon]: Eh. True. Those would still fall under controversy wouldn't they?

2008-02-15 [Linderel]: And nature? One might argue it would fall under 'beauty', but I sincerely doubt it always does.

2008-02-15 [Cascading water lillies]: Ah..nature can be a contradiction in itself.

I definitely like the controversial though. The kind which has to be written, in the most truthful manner. But then, you have to cope with the consequences, of say, a particularly truthful article, for example. You have to weigh up the value of truth, against reactions, and if the public benefit from such a truth being exposed. I think that has to outweigh anything else- public effect.
I'm working on such an article that I feel MOST strongly about. Usually, there is some sort of first or second hand experience in which to drive a passion for a particular issue though. That's the fire you need, I think, if say you wish to be a journalist (The good kind, not a pap.) (Apologies for the off-tangents.

2008-02-16 [Chetleon]: Hmmm beauty is such a complex matter to write about though. OH my.

2008-02-18 [Fireblade K'Chona]: And then you can write about the lack of beauty, too.

2008-02-18 [NukleaЯ EveЯgloW™]: beauty in the eye of the beholder

2008-02-18 [Cascading water lillies]: Yep. What is beauty to some, appears hideous to others.
The same as what appears Utopian to some, is dystopian to another.

2008-02-21 [NukleaЯ EveЯgloW™]: or Ethiopian >.> lol jk. i just had to say that.

2008-03-08 [Chetleon]: Hmmm. Perhaps beauty just doesn't entirely exist in the literary world, and is just a mass delusion?

2008-03-08 [Fireblade K'Chona]: That's another good poetry topic, actually.

2008-03-08 [Chetleon]: Hey! SO it is... hmm

2008-03-09 [Fireblade K'Chona]: what are your personal favorite poetry topics?

2008-03-09 [Chetleon]: Hmmm I would have to say decite, or rebirth, or just religion. I actually enjoy sexual undertones in my work though.

2008-03-09 [Fireblade K'Chona]: I'm a fan of dreams. And vampires! Those are fun.

2008-03-09 [Cascading water lillies]: I like anything dark, like the afore mentioned vampires. I'm not a HUGE fan of blood and gore, just for the sake of it, but I'm no shrinking violet either. I love the paranormal, fantastical.
Sci-fi; love, dreams, psychology, religion, theological,or mind alterering states to induce Alice like worlds. Anything that encourages the absolute most potential in a story. When you sit back and think of all the possibilities for each and every story, you begin to realise just how fun it can be. That's if you enjoy writing, of course, wether your a reader, or a writer.

2008-03-11 [Chetleon]: I think everyone enjoys they're writing.

2008-03-11 [Fireblade K'Chona]: I also love prose. Particularly throwing people into different worlds. That's fun.

2008-03-13 [Chetleon]: Yes, I at the moment am trying to finish a story about the insanity and multiple personalities of a poet as he goes through a single day.
Fun stuff to keep me occupied.

2008-03-13 [Cascading water lillies]: That reminds me of 'The Secret Window'. *Sigh) -But, then everything reminds me of Johnny Depp.

2008-03-13 [Linderel]: Johnny Depp? By all accounts, 'The Secret Window' should be associated with Stephen King.
(Not that Depp isn't the only actor I profess to actually fangirling. *drool*)

2008-03-13 [Triola]: On the subject of Johnny dearest, art thou watching fair Sweeney Todd to-night? :D (*hopes the poetic language will be enough not to get scolded for off topic conversation* >.>)

2008-03-13 [Cascading water lillies]: Yes, of course, but it's generally the visual image of an actor that pops into the mind- like Fight Club for one small example- Brad Pitt probaly emerges before the writer..Plus, it IS Johnny. Countless films, many adapted from books..
Sweeny Todd was/is a great film.

2008-03-13 [Linderel]: Well, for me, it's natural to think of King before Depp, since I've read the story ages ago but have not seen the film.

Trin, aye. ;3

2008-03-13 [Cascading water lillies]: Ah, well, touche if you have not seen the film.
I loved all of Steven King's books, but the last lot seemed a bit.well.lacking some of his former glory.
Have you ever read any of Dean Koontz, or James Herbert? (There's many, many more that I read, don't be fooled ^^I am a book worm)

2008-03-13 [Triola]: Yayys! :D :D Then we will gush tomorrow! :D

2008-03-13 [Linderel]: Although I think that had I seen the film, I would still primarily associate the name with King, since I read the story first.
I haven't read all of his books, actually. That's a project I must get started on one day or another.
Can't say that I have. :)

2008-03-14 [Fireblade K'Chona]: I have never read anything by Stephen King. Huh.

2008-03-14 [NukleaЯ EveЯgloW™]: I've read Dreamcatcher and Firestarter, good books, mhmm.

2008-03-14 [Chetleon]: OH my, I just finished Insomnia, but I like 'Secret window' even if it was just a story, I think it's close enough to be considered a novella.
It was in the collection "Four past midnight" Good read, good read.

2008-03-14 [Cascading water lillies]: Well, the Magic Cottage is a great read, by J. H.

2008-03-19 [Chetleon]: Hmmm it sound interesting.

2008-07-07 [Linderel]: *prods* LIVE!
Hm, if I recall, before the comments got blasted to cyberspace heaven or wherever, we were talking about contest participation and insane projects. Also, Trin wanted to discuss the... villanelle?

2008-07-07 [Triola]: Not wanted, per se :P I'm just curious to see if anyone has ever tried their hands at it

2008-07-07 [Linderel]: Have you? :3

2008-07-07 [Chetleon]: I haven't I prefer to use free verse, or make my own.

2008-07-07 [Linderel]: Make your own? What forms have you come up with, then?

2008-07-08 [Chetleon]: Just a short verse.
Seven words - 14 syllables,
six words - 12 syllables,
five words - 10 syllables,
etc.

It's dull. But it's the best I could manage.

2008-07-08 [Triola]: I haven't either, but I have considered it, although at the moment just writing a poem in itself is big enough a challenge for me :P

2008-07-08 [Linderel]: Adrienne being a bitch? :P
You want help nudging her? Words that you should use, for example?

2008-07-08 [Triola]: Actually, I want a day off from work so that I have the time to sit down and find my head xD

2008-07-08 [Linderel]: Awww. Well that's harder xD
*puts out a missing item report for your head*

So! What are your favourite villanelles?

[Chetleon]: It is a bit dull, true. Maybe think about alternating the lines, adding a certain rhyme scheme, using a poetic metre like an iamb or trochee or what have you... I know you said you mainly do free verse, but just for the sake of challenge. :)

2008-07-08 [Triola]: My favourite is probably Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night by Dylan Thomas. It is probably the most famous villanelle, but I believe that's because of it's awesomeness :P

2008-07-08 [Linderel]: Ah, it's in the Wikipedia article. I should read it, yesterday I just gave it a glimpse.
*its

2008-07-08 [Triola]: Wikipedia should always be given lots of time *nodnod*

2008-07-08 [Linderel]: Definitely.
Like I said before, I'll be at our summer house the whole of next week. We don't have interwebs there, so I'm limited to reading and writing. And frolicking, possibly, if the mood strikes. I'll take the lappy with me, though, so I can maybe continue with the HP stuff and especially RiE. Any other requests? Would you like me to try out the villanelle, for example, in an effort to stave off the inevitable boredom? :P

2008-07-08 [Triola]: Yay :D Though, book six and seven before villanelle, I always say >.> :P

2008-07-08 [Linderel]: I'll see what I can do. xD I have a feeling I'll procrastinate with the books because of the huge amount of denial I know I'm going to be in after reading book five again. :P
But yes, I'll drag Potters with me and endeavour to finally get the series finished. And I totally owe you at least one chapter of RiE, along with the Malfoy soiree and the Cambodian rice fields. They were Cambodian, right? I think I ought to do some research before we leave on Monday.

To steer the topic back to poetry... What's your favourite form, if any? We all know by now of Fireblade's affinity for the sestina, but what about the others? I, myself, have a soft spot for haiku... and sonnets, when I can be bothered. Usually, though, I stick with freeform, which works quite well for me.

2008-07-08 [Triola]: Sonnets ftw, definitely <3 Though, when I write it's usually just iambic tetra-/pentameter lines until I run out of things to say

2008-07-08 [Linderel]: Do you think that when you write abiding by a certain form, or even meter, for long enough, it'll start coming naturally? I do know that for some people, writing with a certain rhyme scheme just comes easier than freeform... even though that does slightly confuse me. But I guess some things simply are in-built in some while being troublesome for others.

2008-07-08 [Triola]: I have great problems with freeform. I never feel that I manage to make it poetic enough, that they are just sentences of any prose work. That's why I like rhyming so much, it's poetic in and of itself :P

2008-07-08 [Linderel]: Except when it's forced. There's little that annoys me more in poetry than forced rhyming. Makes me want to beat whoever wrote it upside the head and tell them to refrain from putting their work up until they learn. I guess that's a bit harsh, but eh. Especially as a DP Boss, I reserve the right to be irritated.
I've always been one for freeform. I think I make it work, because most of my poetry does have its own rhythm. It flows well enough. I only started trying out other things in recent years, after my confidence grew. :P

2008-07-08 [Triola]: I like your poems :3 The only thing that sometimes annoys me, if we are to be completely honest, is that you are a big fan of poetic language :P Sometimes I catch myself thinking "for once, why can't she write in plain English" xD But the use of long, flowy words is part of what makes your poetry you, I think, so I won't complain :P

2008-07-08 [Linderel]: You just threw a metaphorical gauntlet. I shall accept. xD

2008-07-08 [Triola]: So you got that part xD But now I have to run to work, will be waiting impatiently for the result of this 'challenge' ;)

2008-07-08 [Linderel]: One thing, though... not all of my poems are quite like that. Just... erm... most? <_< But I do have simplicity. You've never read Coal black wings in its entirety, have you? :P

2008-07-08 [Triola]: If I have, it's been years :P But you're right, I haven't read it recently.

2008-07-08 [Linderel]: Er, well, I started it in... 2005, perhaps? Will have to check that, actually. And you've only known me less than two years. xD

2008-07-09 [Triola]: I remember reading through a lot of your stuff when I first got to known you, but even if that's less than two years ago, it's still a long time :P

2008-07-09 [Linderel]: Yeah, okay. :P
You never said anything about my comment on forced rhyming, by the way.

2008-07-09 [Triola]: That's because when I read through a comment, I only remember the last parts of it because I is goldfish >.>

But yes, forced rhyming = annoying. Halfrhymes too, unless you're going for something of a Baroque style or whatever.

2008-07-12 [little flag]: I'm going to do the shameless thing and ask if anyone has read/has thoughts on my latest, "sizzle & shine."

2008-07-12 [Linderel]: *weeps for the lost conversation*
Oh, yeah. I should probably give you your next challenge, eh, Trin?

Can't say I have, but I can take a look at it later. :)

2008-07-12 [Triola]: *mourns*

Bring it on :D

2008-07-13 [Fireblade K'Chona]: -ish back- I also love sonnets, but lately I've been doing a lot more free verse, I don't really know why.

I'll write more after this. I am being kidnapped to go see Hellboy II. Should I be scared?

2008-07-17 [Linderel]: Topic: Developing your own forms. Discuss.
I want to see conversation when I come back. :P

2008-07-20 [Linderel]: ...very depressing.

2008-07-20 [Easterling]: Don't stop believing, Linderel.

2008-07-20 [Linderel]: Of course I won't. Otherwise I'd have given up on this wiki ages ago. :P

2008-07-20 [Easterling]: :)

In poetry I especially love when it's not obvious what the poem is about. I like when I can go and mumble the words for myself, thinking about it and living with it for a while, trying to capture and understand the feeling that the writer want to express.

I'm not, either, that strict about being have to interpret the written words exactly as the writer has meant. I like finding new meanings. The writer creates something with what he or she wrote, but the reader and listener also creates something.

2008-07-21 [Fireblade K'Chona]: I would've talked about it but I went and had my wisdom teeth out. I invented a form a while ago which I call a sonnetina, because it's a cross between a sonnet and a sestina. I would tell you more but a: I have no idea where I left the format and b: I'm on really heavy pain meds and don't remember much more at present. whee...

2008-07-21 [Chetleon]: Sounds interesting. A hyrbrid poetry, who could ask for more?

2008-07-21 [Fireblade K'Chona]: it was quite fun to write. I'll dig up the form for you later. I know I have it somewhere.

2008-07-24 [Chetleon]: That should be interesting!

2008-08-29 [Linderel]: So, Fireblade, ever find that form?

2008-08-30 [SilverFire]: *haunts*

2008-08-30 [Linderel]: :D

2008-08-30 [SilverFire]: *randomly clicking links around the page* I wonder if anyone's ever tried to do a full verse novel for that nanowrimo thing. O.o

2008-08-30 [Linderel]: ...I'm intrigued now :D
Not going to do it myself, but it would be interesting if someone did.

2008-08-30 [SilverFire]: This was actually the first time I've bothered to look at the nanwrimo site, though I've heard it mentioned lots. I'm... not sure I get the point of it. O.o

2008-08-30 [Linderel]: The point? Pure fun of the challenge.

2008-08-30 [SilverFire]: It... sounds like a lot of stress to produce sub-standard work. o.O I'm... really puzzled by it. XP

2008-08-30 [Triola]: It's about setting a goal and doing your outmost to reach it and in the process write as much as you possibly can, good or bad, because any writing is better than no writing and when the month is over you can go back and edit to your heart's content :P

2008-08-30 [SilverFire]: Do they give you a theme or anything?

2008-08-30 [Linderel]: Nope. You can write about aaaaanything at all. Many seize this as the opportunity to write the novel they always wanted to but never got around to even starting. :P

*utmost, Trin!

2008-08-30 [SilverFire]: So it's entirely a matter of trust that you wrote only in November? (I don't mean that as a criticism, I'm just checking).

2008-08-30 [SilverFire]: I think I have completely the wrong mind-set for that challenge. XP I wouldn't want to use the idea for the novel I always wanted to write for it because I'd want to do it far more justice than could be done in a month, so I'd end up trying to think of an idea that I didn't care a huge amount for, and wouldn't get too attached to, so I would be able to work on it without wondering that it's crappy.

2008-08-30 [Linderel]: Yeah, it is. Although it's allowed to make notes and all sorts of plans even months beforehand. And nothing stops you from writing text bits before November, but you just can't count them in that 50k.

Well, yeah, true. For many I guess it's just a good time to start writing, when everyone else is doing it too - I know people who write their NaNo novels in one week, and then those who just take their time and if they get to 50k, well, that's a nice bonus, but what's important is that they're producing text. Me, I fall somewhere in between. I didn't really mind that I didn't finish my NaNo last year, because it became so much more. I've half a mind to continue writing it this year, to get a bit of the necessary kick...

2008-08-30 [Chetleon]: Hmmmm... . . I'm writing another novel... hopefull better than my first one.

2008-08-30 [Linderel]: What's it about?

2008-08-31 [Chetleon]: Well, this one is centered around obsession. I personally am obsessed with learning to play the piano, but it's not one of my talents.

SO-- I am writing about a pianst who is struggling to finish a new composition, but he finds fault with the piano he is playing on, and becomes obsessed with finding the perfect instrument.
And then it has a short interlude explaining the history of the piano. And the woman who own's it, is obsessed with my character, but finds he loves his art more than her.

So it ought to be interesting. I only have around 43 pages written thus far.

2008-08-31 [Fireblade K'Chona]: Actually, Linderel, I did find the form! here is the sonnetina. It's iambic pentameter, and...basically I laid it out like the form of a sestina is. ask me about it if it doesn't make sense.

1234
4312
2143
3421
12
34
OR
13
24

yay!

2008-08-31 [Linderel]: My just-awake brain does not comprehend what the numbers refer to xD

2008-08-31 [Fireblade K'Chona]: basically it's like a sestina. but what it means is, each line of numbers refers to a stanza. in this each stanza is four lines in iambic pentameter. each single number is a different word. you use only those four words when you end the lines. the last two lines are a little different; you use two of your designated ending words in each line instead of just one. make sense yet, or do you want me to go dig up an example?

2008-09-01 [Linderel]: I think it's opening up to me, but hey, we never say no to an example ;3

2008-09-01 [Fireblade K'Chona]: um, okay. I'll have to go dig it up from wherever I saved it. new computer, you know.

2008-09-30 [Linderel]: Mraw?
I think I'll be writing that villanelle this weekend. Just for kicks. Will probably moan about it in here. :D

2008-10-01 [Fireblade K'Chona]: ooh, villanelle!

...

Good luck.

2008-10-01 [Triola]: Villanelle! :D

2008-11-11 [Linderel]: *prods*

So. I've written two villanelles this past week. They aren't even half bad. :P

Also, I think I finally understand the sonnetina.
What has everyone else been up to in their poetic endeavours?

2008-11-12 [Chetleon]: Well, I'm trying my hand at blank verse. Unfortunatly I'm not that good.
I may just have to stick with what I'm best at.

2008-11-12 [Linderel]: *wikipedias blank verse* A-ha. I'm going to have to give that a shot.

And what is it that you're best at?

2008-11-12 [Chetleon]: I suppose that would be free verse, and more along the lines of confessional poetry.

2009-03-23 [Linderel]: What do people think of poets such as T. S. Eliot and E. E. Cummings? The last two or three lectures in our Introduction to English Literature have been about them, and I was curious to know whether others had read them, and how extensively.

2009-03-23 [Triola]: I've not read much of either, but we did Eliot's The Journey of the Magi in class, and I really liked that one :3

"Finding the place; it was (you may say) satisfactory." <3

2009-03-23 [Linderel]: I'll be reading that soon, no doubt. I, myself, fell in love with The Love Song Of J. Alfred Prufrock long ago... I think we discussed it briefly in senior secondary. Not entirely certain.

2009-03-23 [Triola]: Yeah, I have a friend who adores that one and made me read it, but it wasn't love at first sight.

2009-03-25 [Chetleon]: I'm not a big fan of E.E. Cummings, but I ADORE T.S. Eliot. If no one has read his introduction to Nightwood, by Djuna Barnes they should!

2009-03-26 [little flag]: Elliot is quite fantastic. I just got a new copy of The Waste Land and am looking forward to reading it again! My favorite thing about cummings is his refusal to be hemmed in by grammar or the usual stylistic expectations. It looks chaotic until you take the time to understand the underlying methodology or thought-process, what flows, what doesn't. Like a transcription of scattered brainthoughts, only better organized.

2009-03-26 [Linderel]: We had to attempt some form of analysis on Cummings' yes is a pleasant country in our small group session... it was wonderful when it started making sense. :)

It also spurred a quote that I'll remember for quite a while: 'Love is a deeper season than reason, so even commas and colons can work it out.' This was inspired by the observation I made about the punctuation in the piece. :P

2009-03-26 [Chetleon]: The think I like about Eliot is that his work takes on so many different meanings all at once, especially ones like "the Waste Land" and "Love Song. . ." I think that it's a pity he didn't write more. : (, I would have enjoyed reading more from him.

2009-03-27 [little flag]: One of the first things of Elliot I read was a book called The March Hare which contained previously unpublished works. If you haven't read it already, I reccomend it.

2009-04-07 [Linderel]: I'll have to add that to my list. :) *googles* I think you mean Inventions of the March Hare.
I can't wait to actually get down to reading his work. Discovering that Cats was based on his Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats made me love him even more.

(Also, minor nitpick - there's only one 'l' in his name.)

2009-04-08 [little flag]: Yes, Inventions of... and I noticed the one L thing shortly after I posted that ^_^ After rereading The Waste Land... well, it's still all greek to me, but one of the things I found most interesting was his references to the Upanishads. I'm currently reading through those right now, so that was an interesting tie-in. "Love Song..." has to be one of the top most amazing poems I've ever read though. Absolutely wonderful.

Has anyone heard of the poet Brenda Shaughnessy? She wrote a short book called Human Dark with Sugar... there's a couple of poems in there that really spoke to me.

Also, I'm looking for opinions... I've been having an interesting discussion with some friends about the merits and defects of modern "free verse poetry." The really good ones seem effortless and pack a punch, like unexpected thoughts; the really bad stuff seems to just tend towards incoherence and... I don't want to say nihilism, but the final product doesn't seem to lend itself to editing, or like there's no particular reason it was this way rather then some other way. Does anybody know what I mean? Or if you know of any poetry "theory" books that might discuss something about modern poetry writing and could share a title... Lately this kind of thing has been on my mind a lot, but I'm with a small study abroad group focused on learning other things and no one really knows much about or cares about creative writing.

2009-04-08 [Chetleon]: I think there are pros and cons to every form of poetry, mostly I think when people abuse the form. Like when using a rhyme scheme some people actually RHYME every word, and not just the syllables.
But I can't hep you with finding a book on it, I'm sure there is but I don't really know of any.

2009-08-22 [Linderel]: Hey, some of you might appreciate a membership of The Bad Artist Society. Take a look at I have no need of your god-damned sympathy. :)

2009-08-24 [Chetleon]: The bad artist society? My my I love it already. 

2009-08-24 [Linderel]: Another plug! Preaching Poetry is sorely in need of additional submissions, please go check it out.

2009-09-08 [Fireblade K'Chona]: Have any of you ever read The Ballad of Reading Gaol? It's by Oscar Wilde, so it's a lot more traditional than cummings, but it's one of my favorite poems ever.

Also, how do you guys read poems? Aloud, or silent, or either? I'm just wondering...

2009-09-08 [Linderel]: Can't say that I have, but as is typical, it has just silently tacked itself onto the end of my reading list... which basically means that I'll read it when I get my hands on it.

Depends, really. In class, there's sometimes need to read a poem aloud, but usually I go for silent. Although sometimes I do read aloud just to hear what it would sound like... or if something bothers me but I can't quite put my finger on it.

2009-09-08 [Fireblade K'Chona]: There are a few poems I usually read out loud because it's just a pity to not hear the alliteration and wordplay and rhyme. The Raven is one of them. That one is AWESOME to read aloud.

2010-02-23 [Linderel]: A. E. Housman. Discuss. :)

2010-02-26 [Fireblade K'Chona]: "The Colour of His Hair" is one of my favorite poems. Other than that I don't know a lot about him.

2010-02-26 [Linderel]: He's one of the poets covered in the poetry section of our Introduction to English Literature course, and 'XL' from Last Poems is one of presentation topics in the practice groups. I now know the first two stanzas by heart. <_<

2010-02-27 [Fireblade K'Chona]: For some reason I had an urge to reread The Cremation of Sam McGee the other night. So I did!

It's a lot of fun. :P

2012-01-02 [Akayume]: *poke*

2012-01-02 [Linderel]: *ping*

2012-01-02 [Linderel]: First order of business: new banner. I'll get on it tomorrow.

2012-01-02 [Akayume]: Aye aye cap'n! :D

2012-01-02 [Linderel]: D'you want a link to your poetry wiki up there? :3

2012-01-02 [Akayume]: I suppose... :P

2012-01-02 [Linderel]: I'm choosing to hear a very enthusiastic YES. :P

2012-01-02 [Akayume]: X3 Works for me!

2012-01-02 [Nioniel]: Cool stuff. <3

2012-01-03 [Captain Rachel Black]: (stalks)

2012-01-03 [Mortified Penguin]: Where do those of us who are incompetent in the ways of poetry go to learn? I would like to write poetry someday, but I don't know how...

2012-01-03 [Linderel]: Creative writing courses may occasionally be of help. The two I've been on were rather useful in some ways.

2012-01-04 [hannes]: great idea! :)

2012-01-04 [Linderel]: Thanks. :) This wiki was created a few years ago, but it has trouble staying alive. :P I'm hoping to revive it again a bit.

2012-01-06 [hcxz]: Mortified Penguin-- there is no way to poetry, poetry is the way.

2012-01-06 [Mortified Penguin]: How poetic.

2012-01-06 [hcxz]: How are you planning to revive the wiki, Linderel?

It's a shame there are no set of defibrillators for life of this sort. ;)

2012-01-06 [hcxz]: I am never sure whether to embrace Houseman or put his works in the fireplace. On one hand, he is incredibly sensitive to the human condition. For some he may serve as a vortex out of which come familiar sentiments ("i, a stranger, am afraid in a world I never made") . But he seems to want to leave thoughts of this sort behind, seeing the individual as almost illusory.

If for nothing else save his sensitivity to a human thinking too far inwardly, I would keep him to warm my heart instead of my home.

2012-01-10 [Linderel]: Gavotte: A bit of advertising, and just generally not letting the discussion die out this time. :)

Housman is probably one of my favourite poets now. The piece I mentioned earlier on gets a lot of love from me.

2012-01-10 [hcxz]: Hopefully others will respond to these efforts! I was lucky enough to have noticed this place thanks to Akayume's mood.


I am not familiar with it, but I will read the poem. :)

2012-01-10 [Linderel]: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~martinh/poems/complete_housman.html#LPxl

I actually made a recording of it about a month ago. Of course I could not do it justice, but it was an attempt. :P

2012-01-10 [Nioniel]: That was beautiful. :)

2012-01-10 [Triola]: I know little of Housman, I'm afraid, but to get the discussion going further, perhaps others can mention their current favourites as well? Whether poem or poet. I am sure that any work or person on the top of the favourite list of anyone in here is worth a discussion :)

2012-01-11 [Linderel]: Sure. :D What's yours, then, Trin darling? :3

2012-01-11 [Triola]: I was thinking more of other people <.< To be honest, my current favourite poem is in Norwegian, which doesn't help us much at all. But I've recently revisited an old favourite in Ezra Pound, I always did love The Garden. There is something so very fragile and English about it :P

2012-01-11 [Linderel]: I haven't got around to reading Pound yet for some reason. I should, but haven't.

2012-01-11 [Triola]: If nothing else, read The Garden :) I'd like to know what you think

2012-01-24 [Akayume]: I recently bought some old poetry books from the library for dirt cheap. :D I plan to read them eventually, but for right now they look nice all stacked up on my shelf. :P

... Yeah. Thought I'd share. XP

2012-01-24 [Linderel]: Now you must list them!

2012-01-24 [Akayume]: Now I must get up and recall what they are by looking at their spines! :P

Aragon - Poet of the French Resistance by Duell Sloan and Perce
One Hundred Narrative Poems by Telter
The Golden Treasury
Spencer's Complete Poetical Works (Cambridge Edition)

2012-01-24 [Linderel]: Oo, Edmund Spenser? We sorta covered him on the 500-1660 course. Spenserian sonnet and all that.

2012-01-24 [Akayume]: Cool. :D I haven't read much "classical" poetry. >.>

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