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2005-10-04 00:25:19
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[Here is a forum where we, of all political affiliations, can come have a cup of coffee (provided by you) and debate issues.]

Here, I [Roc] and [Morfeaohtarawen] will moderate and discuss political issues with anyone. I would love if people of all affiliations would participate. Every two weeks, the topic will change. One week it may be same-sex marriage, and the next it could be abortion or social security reform.
-----I will admit, as an American, I do not know much about foreign affairs, but please message me if you would like to discuss something pertinent to your current issues.

Topic for the weeks 10/3-10/17: The appointment of Ms. Miers to the final seat of the Supreme Court, the replacement of Sandra Day O'Connor

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2005-09-04 [Roc]: Well, certainly there are times where international interference is pointless, and sometimes even harmful, but I would have to say I do support our action in both World Wars.

2005-09-04 [Fizban]: yes...but the one war we had "lost" although technically egotists like to say we couldtn have lost it cuas it wasnt a war, only a conflict ie. the president flexing his muscles in that he fought a war without declaring one. anyone know anything about the BAY OF FUCKING TONKIN...of course google will get confused if you copy and paste that...its in my opinoun the bane of this countries history. It's one of those things that just makes me so angry i want to die...

2005-09-04 [Dil*]: hmmm? never heard of the bay of tonkin...elaborate? Just give a brief summary.

2005-09-04 [Fizban]: its when america faked being attacked by the vietnemese (we were really practices battle manuveours there, in the bay of tonkin in vietnam before the war started)) and then we lied and said they destroyed one of our ships...((with what navy force or weapons?? oh i dunno...cuase they had no navy...)) and used that as our excuse to get into there affairs, and then we go and lose 40,000 lives, and achieve nothing for there country...so the people who thought they were helping stop an aggressive nation..both failed in that attempt, and died defending there country that was never attacked!!!! ever!!!!!...lied to so many people...to me its like 40,000 people died in vain....

2005-09-04 [Dil*]: wow...incredible.

2005-09-04 [Fizban]: yeah i got a little pissed when my teacher taught us about it

2005-09-04 [Dil*]: Better than emotionally traumatized and dizzy. That was me learning about WW2, I felt numb (like something died inside myself)....well, we talked about horrible things like concentratoins camps. But for some reason I'm affected more by Japanese atrocities because they're not as known. They were covered up by the Japanese if you may.  Too many people are ignorant about it, the germans didn't really do the biggest atrocity in the 20th century. The japanese did, read up on "The rape of Nanking" (I warn you, do not look this up if you're emotionally strong/fragile). I could barely handle the truth.

2005-09-04 [Dil*]: Actually, I couldn't handle the truth, I learned some details of stuff from my parents when I was about 11 and been mentally scarred since. This is my brutal quest for truth, I know it hurts but I can't stop myself.

2005-09-04 [Fizban]: oh...oy vey, japan did sooo much, was that before the russo-japenese war?? or did they ruthlessly expand and conquor the parts of china with resources after they defeated russia to simply extradite there power and show the world...

2005-09-04 [Dil*]: People who persue truth know the pain of it.

2005-09-04 [Fizban]: eh...i dont care. I mean i care, i just dont think about it...it makes me far to angry, i am not going to look up nanking...i already know what its about, details are...un-necessary. Lets change the subject...

2005-09-04 [Dil*]: yeah.

2005-09-05 [skizheart]: lol well...we're all very chipper.... :) lol

2005-09-05 [skizheart]: well...when i went to france their impression of us...is that the majority of Americans...are fat/lazy, we eat McDonalds, we all vote for Bush, and the we hate the French lol....i personally agree...but i did not give off the impression anyways...because i liked everything they liked...except for Ham...and i was completely against everything they thought and so was the majority of the class i was with...but most adults are like that..and are narrow-minded too :( so i can't help but agree..neways the fact that our country was terroriized...was um extremely bad...and not the ritgh way(i don't think) to going about getting our attention...because they don't like the way we 'live',

2005-09-05 [skizheart]: but i completely hate the way we live....and i don't blame other countries for disliking us either....but where is there a better place...?

2005-09-05 [Fizban]: Australia^_^

2005-09-05 [skizheart]: ....well they can't be a perfect country...there's prolly something wrong with them too. :(

2005-09-05 [Fizban]: nut uh...they are the city on the hill...they are the paradise land...

2005-09-05 [Dil*]: CANADA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2005-09-05 [Fizban]: too cold ;)

2005-09-06 [Dil*]: ...we have deserts if you can believe...up here in B.C.

2005-09-06 [Fizban]: deserts or tundras...??

2005-09-06 [Dil*]: deserts. Not joking.

2005-09-06 [Fizban]: wow...now i wanna go to canada and see it...

2005-09-06 [Dil*]: the interior...it gets super hot in the summer and super cold in the winter I think...but kelowna is always warm ^__^

2005-09-06 [Fizban]: always?? how?? air/water currents??

2005-09-06 [Dil*]: hmm....not sure...haha.

2005-09-06 [Axeman08]: Try Sweden, maybe. There's a reason they have the lowest crime rate, no capital punishment, and one of the longest life expectancies, among other things...

2005-09-06 [Dil*]: because they're cushy socialists...ahh.

2005-09-06 [Axeman08]: They've figured a lot of things, out, though. Pure capitalism or socialism do not work. You need a mixed economy for the best results.

2005-09-06 [Fizban]: sweden are socialists??

2005-09-06 [Dil*]: they're definately leftists....hmm, I'm not sure, I just talked to this swedish guy and he said 'he got free education because of his cushy socialist govt'..lucky bastard.

2005-09-06 [Fizban]: wowsers!!, that makes me want to live ther long enough to get free college...that woudl be friggen awesome...!!

2005-09-06 [Dil*]: yeah I know..I was so pissed *stupid govt*

2005-09-06 [Fizban]: pissed why??

2005-09-06 [Dil*]: because my tuition fees are through the roof.

2005-09-06 [Fizban]: ooh lols envy i see...yeah where do you go to college??

2005-09-06 [Dil*]: not in college yet. On last year of highschool, don't plan to go to college, want to go straightly to University.

2005-09-06 [Fizban]: to university?? but isnt a university a college lols

2005-09-06 [Roc]: Universities are colleges which offer graduate degrees.

2005-09-06 [Fizban]: graduate degrees...i only know of associate, bachelor masters and doctorate...whats graduate?? so confused lols

2005-09-06 [Roc]: Master's and above.

2005-09-06 [Fizban]: ooh,...hms...so this is a college that offers only masters?? or for people specialising in a subject trying to get a masters...i didnt know that...hmms..i suppose any teacher lawyer doctor ect woudl go there

2005-09-07 [Roc]: It offers ALL degree levels. Some colleges only offer undergraduate degrees.

2005-09-07 [Fizban]: undergrad..grad...now i understand where those expressions come from

2005-09-07 [Axeman08]: There are also private schools that only offer graduate degrees. For example, the William Mitchell College of Law in St. Paul, I believe, is one of the best in the country.

2005-09-11 [Roc]: Just trying to get people back on topic, what do you think America should do to end its appearance?

2005-09-12 [Dil*]: ??

2005-09-12 [Fizban]: to end its appearnce?? what do you mean??

2005-09-12 [Roc]: Appearance to the rest of the world's nations?

2005-09-12 [Dil*]: first, what do you think america's appearance is?

2005-09-12 [Roc]: So far, the consencus was America has a very negative appearance.

2005-09-12 [Axeman08]: Well, the whole unilateral war certainly did not help. We are also routinely outvoted in the UN. Usually, it's on issues where we look at our own interests ahead of everyone else's.

2005-09-12 [Fizban]: wich is when we should get voted out so thats good^_^

2005-09-13 [Axeman08]: What annoys me about that is that the reason some Americans want to dissolve the UN is because we get outvoted so often.

2005-09-13 [Fizban]: well some americans are retarded...its important to have our best interests at heart...but not that we shoudl desert something that makes it so we cant have our every pathetic request dammit...

2005-09-14 [Dil*]: I don't dislike 'americans' in general, but I dislike their govt and some of their prejudice...especially against gays.

2005-09-14 [Roc]: Usually, at this point, I would interject, officially declaring this discussion over, but if people want to keep going instead of turning to Nihilism, that's cool.

2005-09-14 [Axeman08]: I'm not sure there's anything left to say, but maybe there is...

2005-09-14 [Dil*]: ah, nihilism..........I wanted to be a large part of that discussion...but I'm not sure if I will be on often....maybe..

2005-09-14 [skizheart]: this nihilism...is what again?

2005-09-15 [Fizban]: against gays, well in comparison to others i suppose.....but please, now the token black guy, has either been replaced by, or accompnied by the token gay guy...people are much more commenly being like, why do you hate gays?? i dont care what they do either way...and cracking down on prejudice people...wich is just as bad, if your going to be prejudice against prejudice people, who are you?? If someone can accept a gay person, why should it be so hard to accept a person who hates gay people?? I dunno, this is just how it seems to me...that and gay is a word people use for everything they dislike now...

2005-09-15 [Fizban]: Rejection of all distinctions in moral or religious value and a willingness to repudiate all previous theories of morality or religious belief.---is this what you mean?? becuase its the only thing i can find...that or the russian thing, or the phycological problem...

2005-09-15 [Axeman08]: Well, Fizban, would you be able to just accept, say, a Nazi?

2005-09-16 [Fizban]: accept, please, i wouldnt have time to hate him at least not for a while, i would have way too many questions for him lols...i would accept anyone that had reasons for why they are the way they are, why they believe...if a person cant tell me why they believe something, then its like, how can i respect your choice of belief, if you dont even know yourself why you believe what you believe??...but if he is a nazi because of whatever his reasons are then good. I will prolly hate his reasons....i hate most of the reasons everyone gives me for why they hate gays, but thats a different story lols.

2005-09-16 [Dil*]: What the heck? Where did this gay thing come up?? o.o And yes, nihilism is the belief that life is worthless and all values/morals are groundless. Quote Nietzche: "The best thing for you is totally unachievable, to have never been born, to have never existed, to be nothing. The 2nd best thing for you is to die very soon." -very nihilistic.

2005-09-16 [Dil*]: Not only does a nihilist believe that everything deserves to perish, but he puts his shoulder to the plow, he destroys. - quote.

2005-09-17 [skizheart]: i hate that guy...nietzche...i read one of his this...in this stupid history book..and i really don't like him at all...he's so depressing...it's annoying just to think about him

2005-09-18 [Dil*]: He makes me laugh, not sure. I think it has something to do with my twisted humour...but yeah. He kinda pisses me off at the same time too..he's sexist as hell.

2005-09-18 [Fizban]: what, does he think girls deserve to perish more than guys or something...so stupid lols...oh well

2005-09-19 [Dil*]: No, he believes we are the 'weaker' race. Let's see now..he hates Christianity, disagrees with the concept of morals, he thinks people who are super liberal and believe deeply in democracy are noble, but foolish creatures...blah. He's a dissenter from humanity.

2005-09-19 [Axeman08]: Yeah, I kind of like him, but think he's misguided at the same time.

2005-09-20 [Dil*]: oh, I meant weaker sex. Blah. I bet he'd digress if he saw us now...

2005-09-20 [Dil*]: But lets talk about nihilism, this philosophy can destroy civilizations and people's minds. It does have foreboding point. Morality changes so much during the centuries, it's unstable. Does it have any significance? How do we know we're actually doing the right things?

2005-09-20 [Fizban]: guys are physcially, externally stronger...and women are internally stronger--))...we dont...look at the things we see when we look back and said...yuck!! retards!! how could they think that??!?! theres those types of ideas to be looked back upon from everyage...but its almost impossible what our era's is...is there...we just dont know what...

2005-09-20 [Fizban]: we shouldnt look upon the things people around us believe is correct or incorrect...we have to look into our selves and think...do i really think this is right?? or is that really..that horrible?? but why??...cant take anyone's word for it...or societies...

2005-09-20 [skizheart]: hmmms

2005-09-20 [skizheart]: i don't understand how morals could be bad...i need an example

2005-09-20 [Fizban]: they could be good or bad...i mean, your morals are what you believe...your morals are weather or not you agree with abortion or detest it...one would think its bad but others morals dictate that its fine...

2005-09-20 [skizheart]: and anyways...i love ppl that are sexist...just not in a crazy asshole way like ppl over in other countries...it's the whole acting upon things i don't like...like you can hate jews...but not threaten them...and you can be sexist...and thinkn they're weaker...but not rape them...and blah blah blah...but anyways...women are weaker...i don't think that they can compare to most mens abilities...except intellectually ....because that just comes down to the entire individual

2005-09-20 [Dil*]: Well, a couple of hundred years back it was okay to burn people for not believing in god. Morals are rights and wrongs. They change ALOT during the course of time, makes you wonder if any morals are actually valid.

2005-09-20 [Fizban]: to some...yea to others no...there are infinite variables, and as many opinouns as there are people...give or take a few hundred...i believe that as long as you keep your heart your wits and good ol' fashion commen sense with you, your morals will be good ones...f course who's to say whos are good or bad??

2005-09-20 [skizheart]: yea...but there are basic morals that...not just religion has but governments too... you know not stealing/killing and stuff like that

2005-09-20 [Fizban]: thats for those too....

2005-09-20 [Dil*]: Err, but that changes alot too. To many muslims, it's definately okay to kill your wife if she's unfaithful..or even strolls out of the house without proper coverings.... The scary thing is, they think they're right for doing it.

2005-09-20 [Axeman08]: Well, it's not just people in other countries that are racist/sexist and act out their beliefs with violence. What about the KKK? Or more recently, what about the surge in violence against Arab-Americans after 9/11?

2005-09-20 [Dil*]: In america, I bet we'd sooo be blacklisted for reading up on such a philosophy hehe.

2005-09-20 [skizheart]: i love how muslims are really strict on what they wear...but i don't like the whole killing thing...and anyways...it's because of thier religion...which says that they can kill if it's for a good cause kind of crap...sorry if anyone is muslim...but i really disagree with that...i don't remeber what book they read out of...quran...or karan...or is that jewish...hmms...help?

2005-09-20 [Fizban]: the koran??...oy vey i dont even want to get onto that...

2005-09-21 [Axeman08]: Americans should refrain from commenting on other religions if they are ignorant about them, as is clear here. Not ALL Muslims adhere to strict laws regarding treatment of women, etc. Moreover, Islam is one of the most forgiving religions out there (more so than Christianity), and there is only a minority of Muslims that believe killing for a "noble" cause will get them seventy-eight virgins in heaven. 

2005-09-21 [Fizban]: umm...shes saying she likes there clothes...shes not saying all islamic people should go kill everyone for not adhearing to cultural clothes...and no...kabam, every relgioun says something about fighting for god, or allah, ect...ie as a martry thats how the 100's of years of war for the holy land went about...but minorities, sometimes take control of the majority choice. People have a nack for twisting the words in the bible...to say or mean, anything lols...

2005-09-21 [Axeman08]: I am not pointing the finger at her in particular, or at anyone in particular, but that is what people tend to do. They feed off what information the American media provides and think they are experts in Islam. That is the easiest way to piss me off. 

2005-09-21 [Dil*]: Okay sorry, my comment was ignorant and probably mislead. But after hearing that story about a girls school burning down in an muslim country and they weren't allowed to go out without a male (relative escort) or without proper coverings and 50 girls died in the building because of the stupid holdups. I heard this in my school amnesty club. So yeah..I was probably still thinking about that.

2005-09-22 [skizheart]: well i don't even watch the media...lol ...every piece of info i know about that is from teachers...so oh wells

2005-09-22 [Axeman08]: Well, yes, it is quite bad in the more conservative countries, but it's more the interpretation of the religion by some rather than the religion itself that is to blame. Women are making strides everydayin many of those countries. Iraq's new legislature is composed 25% of women. That's a higher ratio than over here.

2005-09-22 [skizheart]: yea wows

2005-09-22 [Dil*]: well, I'm glad Iraq has made some good progress...though I still do not support America's cause for war.

2005-09-23 [Fizban]: however i do support them finishing what they started...

2005-09-23 [Dil*]: Still skeptical on that one. I mean, Bosnia is still in ruins...they said they'd rebuild it, not much progress.

2005-09-23 [Fizban]: i hate them all i dont even want to think about the govt anymore, it just looks like an un-solvable problem to me...

2005-09-23 [Dil*]: Ah, back on topic...?

2005-09-23 [Fizban]: haha lols...thats a good idea we havent quite takled about nihilism much...but what is there really to say?? is it controversial and i just didnt know it or something??

2005-09-23 [Dil*]: go read on it a little :P

2005-09-25 [Fizban]: where??

2005-09-26 [Dil*]: ah, go bug roq for the link.... favorites folder...massively massive.

2005-09-26 [Axeman08]: Well, the topic's ending in three days, anyway.

2005-09-28 [Morfeaohtarawen]: yeah, maybe next time we should talk about something like...uh...people being able to sue McDonalds for being fat

2005-09-28 [Dil*]: Uhm, just inquiring if anyone actually supports bush here....I think we're a bunch of biased leftists :P

2005-09-28 [Gypsi]: Heh, methinks the same.

2005-09-29 [Roc]: Man...it's time to change topics. Sorry I haven't been present; I've recently come to check my messages and leave.

2005-09-29 [Fizban]: umm...nope it sounds as though, no one supports bush lols....

2005-09-30 [Dil*]: haha, go check out the liberal pathology, so far, I haven't had the time to destroy them...but one of you might wanna ^__^

2005-09-30 [Axeman08]: I looked at their arguments. There's nothing to them. They hope to construct complicated sentences in hoping to confuse people to sound smart.

2005-09-30 [Dil*]: I know...I can take them apart on a whim...but too busy.

2005-10-03 [Axeman08]: Yeah, so is this topic going to be updated anytime soon?

2005-10-03 [skizheart]: hmm...dunno ...but we can make one up right now....um what about the death penalty....it has a whole lot to debate about...like how ppl should die...or if they should die inthe first place....and whether or not it's better to keep the ppl in jail for life...or just kill them....so yea....yes?...no?

2005-10-03 [Axeman08]: I like it. It, like abortion, also reaches across party lines.

2005-10-04 [Roc]: Sorry for the late update: End Nihilism

2005-10-04 [Roc]: .................................................................................

2005-10-04 [Roc]: Begin Harriet Miers appointment

2005-10-04 [Fizban]: Harriet Miers, who's that??

2005-10-04 [Axeman08]: She's the new Supreme Court appointee, replacing Sandra Day O'Connor. Honestly, I don't know what can be said about her at this point. She was nominated just today, I believe.

2005-10-04 [Fizban]: ahh, now i remember hearing about her...yea...from what i here shes ridiculed as being just another one of bush's croonies...yuck...as long as shes not that stupid..but she doesnt have as many qualifications as one would expect i heard,....and of course to reinforce bushs part..shes from texas...there great pals-_- so yeah...great, it will be like a legal version of the midnight judges, so far its 2 people...cant wiat till somehow it will keep going.

2005-10-04 [Axeman08]: Well, she actually does have impressive qualifications, though they're not as good as Roberts' and below average for a Supreme Court nominee. However, there have been more unqualified nominations. I don't believe Rehnquist had any experience on the bench whatsoever before he was nominated. He was a Reagan nomination, figures.

2005-10-04 [skizheart]: damn....i have no connection to the outside world...-_- getting a newspaper seems easy and normal to the ordinary lol....and no cable...wish i could comment...oh well

2005-10-04 [Axeman08]: Then what are you doing in this debate page? :p I'm kidding.

2005-10-04 [Fizban]: you have internet!! lols...msn is adequate at best for news at least...

2005-10-04 [Dil*]: not sure what to say to this, I just think it's a bastardization of the supreme court to have the president appoint people. It's a seperate thing.

2005-10-04 [Fizban]: SERIOUSLY!! WE SHOULD APPOINT THEM!! THAT WAY IT WOULDNT BE SO RETARDLY ONE SIDED...i like how they are there forever till death or resignation...because i understand and agree with that idea...but THE people should APPOINT them...dammit. grrrrrrr...

2005-10-05 [Axeman08]: Well, I don't think we should. The whole reason behind Supreme Court justices not being popularly elected is meant to keep out ideology and partisanship from the bench. This way, justices would not have to respond to public opinion and be able to interpret the laws properly. Now, whether or not there is really an absence of ideology from the Court is another matter. The fact that they ruled in favor of Bush 5-4 in 2000 shows us otherwise.

2005-10-05 [Dil*]: yeah well, what's this thing happening that some judge got put into the supreme court because alot of people demanded it....wait, I think that was the bastardization of the supreme court. Whoops mix-up. yeah.

2005-10-05 [Fizban]: I mean, i understand that, they dont even have to live up to what they say, the should and prolly willl try, but as soon as there in they dont have to worry about what we think...i just think we should be the ones to elect all the people that make the laws that control our lives, not just 2/3rds..i dont trust the pres with soemthing like that...at least theres an option for christs sake. i dunno, i am not big on the fed govt having that specific power, not to mention all the power it already has...

2005-10-05 [Axeman08]: Thing is though, with the elections the way they are run, if potential justices were to run campaigns for election to the Court, special interests would find their way onto the bench. It would be just like Congress. Once they are on the bench, justices would be obligated to return the favor, probably in the form of favorable rulings. Do you want a Supreme Court catering to the interests of big oil? No other branch of government would be able to keep them in check if they make partisan rulings.

2005-10-05 [Fizban]: your right...okay...hmms...dammit...dumbass lobbyists...grr...then we are back where we started...but dont the supreme court justices then owe something to the pres for picking them??

2005-10-05 [Axeman08]: Well, no. The President thinks that he/she is making policy for the future merely by being able to appoint justices. Once they are on the court, they answer to no one. Many presidents have regretted their appointments because they turned out to be too liberal/conservative. The greatest chief justice of them all, Earl Warren, who made the civil rights advancements and established Miranda rights among many other things, was an Eisenhower appointee, so you'd think he'd be conservative. He turned out to be the most liberal justice to be on the court, though.

2005-10-05 [Fizban]: i am well aware of Warren, adn i didnt know about eisernhower, lol thats funny...

2005-10-05 [Dil*]: whoa, what an interesting point! I love learning!

2005-10-06 [Axeman08]: lol

2005-10-07 [Axeman08]: Okay, is someone going to say something else to this?

2005-10-08 [Gypsi]: Sorry, I'm not any good for these debates anymore... Not really. I kind of live in a bubble now; I didn't even know about Katrina until a few days afterwards.

2005-10-08 [Fizban]: WOW!! thats bad :( lols...

2005-10-08 [Gypsi]: It's kind of hard to really find out anything about the "Outside World" since I go to a boarding school.

2005-10-08 [Fizban]: OUCH!! thas sucks!! do you like it there?!?! are your rich?? why dont your parents want you around??

2005-10-10 [Axeman08]: Um...is this going anywhere?

2005-10-11 [Fizban]: nope...need a topic of discussion!!

2005-10-11 [skizheart]: i don't like it...what about what i suggested b4?...cuz um this is ~boring~ nothing to debate about.... :(

2005-10-11 [Axeman08]: Well, it would help if more people here actually followed the news.....-_-

2005-10-11 [Fizban]: hahaha lols...its irrelvent eitehr way, we need a new topic or there will be no talking lols...except for our bickering that is ;)

2005-10-11 [skizheart]: so...death penalty?

2005-10-11 [Fizban]: ^_^

2005-10-11 [Axeman08]: Sure, as soon as Roq authorizes it.

2005-10-12 [Dil*]: death penalty!

2005-10-13 [skizheart]: lol...we're waitin man...lol what we gonna do ??? :-P lol

2005-10-15 [skizheart]: k...i'm impatient, so um yea...i feel that it is wrong to have the kill anyone for any reason....but especially revenge soooo..i hate the death penalty , but sad to say there are only 12 states out of 50!!! that made it illegal...-_-

2005-10-15 [skizheart]: i also really feel that um.... ppl shouldn't get life...because then...that's just horrible...i think in general most ppl learn and move on and learn not to repeat...(most) but not all, so they deserve a second chance

2005-10-15 [Fizban]: i dunno...i dont think that anyone should get life on the firest offense...i mean i havce heard cases of some 15 year old getting life...i mean thats just horrible!!!! :( but life is okay after a certain age in my opinoun...i want to know what you have to do to qualify for the death penalty...cause i have heard of people getting years for killing some people and i have heard of someone getting death for killing one person....its retarded.

2005-10-15 [skizheart]: yes it is...it's annoying...alot of things depend on the judge and how bad the murder(s) was

2005-10-16 [Axeman08]: Is there anyone here who supports the death penalty?

2005-10-16 [Fizban]: well...i support it...just not full fledged...its okay...when used in extreme moderation lols. I love ny in that,...we have it but have been saving it for just that horrible awful person...we havent used it yet lols...wich is good...cuase to me that right...we have it if we "need" it...and we know when to use it lols...

2005-10-16 [Axeman08]: Who decides who is horrible enough for us to kill, though?

2005-10-16 [Fizban]: the biggest problem with our system of law...is us.

2005-10-16 [Axeman08]: Well, of course it is. The reason a disproportionate number of minorities are in prison is because we tend to focus on the kind of crime that they are more likely to be involved in. They are also arrested more often.

2005-10-17 [skizheart]: oh yes they are...but what do you mean...the kind of crime ...huh?....but yea ... most ppl in prison are not white

2005-10-17 [Axeman08]: By the kind of crime, I mean that we choose to concentrate on street crime in poor neighborhoods a lot more often than on, say, white-collar crime.

2005-10-17 [Dil*]: hmmm, the problem with death penalty is..they have executed a bunch of innocent people...(of course finding out later..when they're DEAD).

2005-10-17 [Fizban]: movie!! Kabamber whats that movie we watched!!!!!! It was a great movie...it was all about this man and how he very easily tricked the texas govt into thinking that he was a murderer...and it then shows that the System easily gets things fuddled, and can easily persecute those who are not guilty...(based on something that really happened so its got a backround behind it lols)

2005-10-18 [skizheart]: um the life of david gale...or was it the death of david Gale....i htink it was life

2005-10-18 [Axeman08]: Yeah, that was a great movie.

2005-10-18 [Fizban]: yay you saw it, (it was definetly life lols) and yeah its great...I like that actor alot too...i think he should be put in everything lols...not everything everything, but hes a really good actor...he coudl easily fit many roles lol...

2005-10-18 [Axeman08]: Yeah, Kevin Spacey is a terrific actor. But back to the topic, capital punishment costs a lot more than just prison due to the appeals put in by the defense.

2005-10-18 [Fizban]: yes that makes sense...now that ya think of it wowsers...well maybe...wouldnt someone defend as much as they could to try to get out of life, as well as to get out of death??

2005-10-18 [skizheart]: Wait, what ? you think that the death penalty is cheaper than life in prison????

2005-10-18 [Axeman08]: Well, there is a certain limit to what you can appeal with life in prison, I think. With the death penalty, you can just appeal the sentencing. I think that's how it works.

2005-10-18 [Fizban]: hmms...how much are the costs to defend combined with the costs of keeping someone in prison till they die...

2005-10-19 [Axeman08]: Not as high as the costs of executing someone. That is proven.

2005-10-19 [skizheart]: but we pay taxes... it costs more to pay for them to live...eat sleep have a bed blah blah blah and crap ...then to just kill someone...

2005-10-19 [Fizban]: well...show us?? i cant see how it costs so much...i mean for the appeals still...

2005-10-19 [Axeman08]: I don't have an exact number for you. I'll try to find time to research it, but thing is, you don't just kill them. Before they're executed they're on death row. They could be on death row for years. You still have to pay for them to live. What really drives up the cost of it are the appeals, with lawyer fees, especially.

2005-10-20 [skizheart]: yea i know that....not everyone gets a million appeals tho...

2005-10-20 [Axeman08]: Well, one appeal costs a hell of a lot of money, not only in court costs, but in attorney fees. Everyone does get one guaranteed appeal.

2005-10-20 [skizheart]: right i know...but some ppl try to get a dozen and stuff...but enough about the costs, cuz there's really no difference....some guy that is in jail for life can get a bunch of appeals and so can a person on death row.... so what do you think about the morality of it? i don't think that people have the right to decide who dies because of what someone did... especially if they could be innocent...or they don't do something that's severe compared to others...

2005-10-26 [skizheart]: oks...this would be the time that someone went and said...hey i disagree with you....blah blah blah...so we could debate lol

2005-10-26 [Fizban]: Hey, i disagree with you...blah blah blah!!

2005-10-26 [skizheart]: -_-

2005-10-26 [Fizban]: hehehehe

2005-11-23 [skizheart]: we suck... nobody's talked for bout like a month @_@ or more @_@ we all just suck suck suck

2005-11-23 [Dil*]: I've just been busy. I'm one of those geeky strait A's kids...:P

2005-11-24 [Gypsi]: As am I... I've had a lot more homework than usual as of late.

2005-11-24 [Dil*]: peakoil are we screwed?

2005-11-25 [skizheart]: screwed?

2005-11-25 [Dil*]: yeah. After the economy crashes we'll be in a state of anarchy.

2005-11-27 [Gypsi]: We are screwed. Very screwed. We've been very screwed.

2005-11-27 [skizheart]: yep

2005-11-27 [arafel]: so...isnt that topic very ol? i mean the Miers one

2005-11-27 [Dil*]: let's talk about the peak oil crisis..

2005-12-03 [Gypsi]: I wouldn't call it a "crisis"... More like dumb f*cks stock-piling it.

2005-12-03 [Fizban]: lols, i am supposta be one of those geeky straight A's kids, but i am lazy sooo;)...hmms, if the economy crashes, how long will it take before we reach that state is what i wanna know?? Will it go in levels of horribly crap-ness until poeple just cant take it anymore and rebel? or just instantaneous anger and unrest?...its a funny thing to project, the death of our country i mean...

2007-01-25 [Fizban]: wow, omg,...there wasn't a single post in this wiki over the entire span of 2006,...not a single comment. It almost made it, being December of 05, but still.

2007-01-25 [skizheart]: so funny

2007-01-27 [Dil*]: sigh....

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